TEOTWAWKI, or The End Of The World As We Know It

[JohnDeere630]

I am a fan of James Wesley Rawles, if you don't know who he is, that's ok; it isn't my intention to start a political discussion. Anyway, one of the things he talks about is TEOTWAWKI, or The End Of The World As We Know It. It doesn't matter what is going to cause it, be it disease, meteor strike, economic collapse, etc. it doesn't even really matter if one subscribes to the possibility, but it does give food for thought.
Be that as it may, I think anyone will agree that oil is going to continue to escalate in real cost for the foreseeable future. The whole Peak Oil concept is moot, IMO....it's only a question of when; the if has long been established.

I have been thinking about all this for a long time, long before I ever heard of JWR, and I have tried to learn as much as I can about everything I can. I have learned how to weld, run a machine shop, raise pigs, cows and chickens. (I was raised on a Dairy Farm) I have taken college courses in accounting, agronomy, CAD and so forth, to name a few, and some thing that have become painfully apparent is that; A: Everything is dependent on something else, B:No one can ever be truly self-sufficient. (Even neolithic peoples depended on trade to a greater or lesser extent.) and C: Absolutely Everything in our modern socio-economic matrix depends absolutely on not just oil, but more importantly, cheap oil. None of the ideas above are new to anyone, but as I said, they do give one food for thought.

I don't personally think that a total societal collapse is imminent, or even probable; besides, it is pointless to worry about something over which one has no control. (As an aside, I get a lot of amusement from the posturings of so-called Doomsday Survivalists who seem to feel that a few cans of beans and enough guns and ammo to re-fight WWII is somehow going to see them through Armageddon. I think most of them would be chased out of their secret hide-outs by an old lady with a broom.)

My concern is post-oil era food and energy production. To this end, I have invested in numerous reference books on diverse subjects, as well as open-pollinated seeds for food production. (Most of the garden seeds you buy are hybrids, which do not breed true, hence their seeds are of questionable value.) In addition to vegetable seeds, I have also purchased OP sugar-beet seeds. My dad used to raise about 20 acres of sugar beets when I was a kid and I never lost my fascination with something that takes CO2 and water and makes tons of sugar per acre. I calculated that 4-5 acres of beets will make about 2000 gallons of ethanol and several hundred pounds of sugar. I am fortunate enough to own 90 acres of prime farmland, which my brother currently uses for beef cattle production, so arable, naturally watered land is not a problem. (This is not a coincidence!) I have been raising a large garden of veggies and potatoes forever, so nothing new there, except now I have to be sure to gather the seeds for next years crop, which is surprisingly involved, but do-able. My wife cans whatever she can, so between that and the livestock we process we have at least one to one and a half years supply of food on hand at any given time. The only thing we really need to buy at this point is flour, coffee and sugar...of course we buy a lot more stuff than that, but flour and sugar are all we really need.

So at this point, my focus is on tractor fuel. All we own are old, relatively simple gasoline-powered John Deere tractors that can be converted to run on ethanol in about an hour. This is the first year I plan to plant sugar beets (if it ever quits raining) to experiment with. Sugar extraction is fairly straightforward, needing only lime and CO2 and the same equipment we use for maple syrup production, but ethanol production is a bit more involved. I plan to use the diffusion process to extract the sugar from the beets, and then directly ferment the anticipated 20% +/- sugar solution and then distill in an 8" packed-column still, which I have yet to make. I tentatively calculate that once the learning curve has flattened, I can process the entire crop in 25 to 30 days, well within the time window before the beets degrade to any appreciable extent.

This year, I plan to plant just a couple of rows in the garden so I can get an idea of what realistic yields I can expect on my land, also I can practice the diffusion and fermentation processes on a small scale in order to again extrapolate real-world results on a bigger scale. It is very exciting......

[mharrison]

Very cool stuff JD, very cool. However, the Rapture is occurring on Saturday at around 6 p.m. PDT so it might all be for naught.

On a side note....have you considered growing your own wheat to make flour or is that way more work than it is worth? I've honestly never farmed beyond a few rows of veggies in a city sized garden, oh, and my garlic crop which renews itself every year on it's own.

[JohnDeere630]

Very cool stuff JD, very cool. However, the Rapture is occurring on Saturday at around 6 p.m. PDT so it might all be for naught.

Didn't anyone tell you? The Rapture was last Saturday. All the Righteous People on earth went directly to Heaven in a blaze of Glory. All 5 of them.

On a side note....have you considered growing your own wheat to make flour or is that way more work than it is worth? I've honestly never farmed beyond a few rows of veggies in a city sized garden, oh, and my garlic crop which renews itself every year on it's own.

Yes, I have been planting a small amount of wheat to experiment with for 2 years. Last year we bought a small grain mill and made about 10 lbs of flour. It was the best we ever tasted. I hope to plant about 1/4 acre this year in a strip about 4' wide so our small combine can get at it. Cutting and threshing wheat last year was a novel experience, but would be a real pisser to have to do very much. Now, if I could just figure out how to build a greenhouse big enough for chocolate and coffee trees....*sigh*

[mharrison]

I think I might have to move to Maine.

[weedeater64]

A: Everything is dependent on something else, B:No one can ever be truly self-sufficient. (Even neolithic peoples depended on trade to a greater or lesser extent.

Not true. There have been, and continue to be such people. There was some blurb I saw not long ago about just such a person, in very recent times, perhaps still alive.

Some guy down in south america somewhere. I don't recall where, but something distinctive about his story I do recall, was that he moved often, building temporary shelters, and he always dug a pit several feet deep in these shelters. The purpose of these pits is a mystery to those that are studying this guy.

Thing is though, that just about anywhere on earth, nature provides. These dependencies you speak of are contrivances of man.

[Beewolf]

I plan to use the diffusion process to extract the sugar from the beets, and then directly ferment the anticipated 20% +/- sugar solution and then distill in an 8" packed-column still, which I have yet to make. I tentatively calculate that once the learning curve has flattened, I can process the entire crop in 25 to 30 days, well within the time window before the beets degrade to any appreciable extent.

Are you sure that's legal? Don't want our treasurer taken away for moonshining.

Not true. There have been, and continue to be such people. There was some blurb I saw not long ago about just such a person, in very recent times, perhaps still alive.

Some guy down in south america somewhere. I don't recall where, but something distinctive about his story I do recall, was that he moved often, building temporary shelters, and he always dug a pit several feet deep in these shelters. The purpose of these pits is a mystery to those that are studying this guy.

Thing is though, that just about anywhere on earth, nature provides. These dependencies you speak of are contrivances of man.

One bad year can wipe out a society that doesn't rely on those contrivances(which is why our forefathers sacrificed the large amount of free time hunting-gathering provides); they also make man's niche hard to place - short of "make nature our bitch", I can't think of one.

[JohnDeere630]

@Weedeater64..Ok, I concede your point. If one is ok living in a cave, eating bugs and wearing fig leaves, and doesn't mind fleas, lice and intestinal parasites, oh, and dies miserably if he should break his leg or just cuts himself with his flint knife & dies of sepsis...well, thats cool, I guess. For one who wishes to eat somewhat regularly and so forth and so on; that is what I am referring to. There is a reason our distant ancestors gave up the hunter/gatherer lifestyle in favor of agriculture, and I for one think they chose wisely. I'm not saying our system is perfect, see my original post, but it sure beats starving in a cold lodge because the wolves have killed all the deer....

@Biotube...not to worry, I have filed for the Federal permit as a small (Less than 5,000 proof/gallons) ethanol fuel producer. No one would want to drink this stuff anyway, as I make no effort to reduce the phenols and fusel oil fermentation byproducts...besides, as per regulations, I have to denature it with 2 gallons of gasoline per 100 gallons of ethanol.

[weedeater64]

@JohnDeere630,
Some of the longest lived individuals ever recorded, are from societies with out technology that you deem 'necessary'.

Some of these folks don't have in their societies , cancer , tooth decay, high blood pressure...

They often live extremely leisurely lives, as compared to our lives. What were the promises of all the 'conveniences' again ? Was it to become slave to them?

Is that prejudice ? or an indication of a mind closed by taboos?

"living in a cave, eating bugs and wearing fig leaves,"

The "fleas, lice and intestinal parasites," bit, is just silly. All easily avoidable with a small bit of knowledge.

Q. What does a billion dollar hospital and Dr. do with a broken leg ?
A. Basically splint it, which can be done with twigs and a bit of rope.

Having antibiotics and antiseptics doesn't mandate a need for expensive third, fourth, tenth parties, but it certainly does allow for said parties to collect a great deal of profit, often doing nothing in return.

Wolves are meat, the same as deer are.

Something in between seem the best approach. Because we can do a thing (some over priced of resource hungry tech), doesn't mean we should. Sadly this is rarely considered, usually ignored completely.

I have nothing against agriculture or even husbandry. However, the way they've been implemented is not only unsustainable, it is detrimental, particularly here in the US.

[JohnDeere630]

@JohnDeere630,
Some of the longest lived individuals ever recorded, are from societies with out technology that you deem 'necessary'.

Don't put words in my mouth...I never said anything was necessary in an absolute sense. I am talking about my interests/views. I am not trying to convince you or anyone else of anything, ok? I definitely agree that many less technologically advanced societies live relatively long and healthy lives, but again, I am talking about my life.

If you will go back & read the description of this section, you will see that it is ostensibly about hobbies and interests, not complaining about NASA or trying to convince anyone that technology is unnecessary. We have sections for that sort of thing already, so unless your hobby is heckling, (and if it is, then start your own darn thread) then quit baiting me and trying to derail my thread.

[JohnDeere630]

I have nothing against agriculture or even husbandry. However, the way they've been implemented is not only unsustainable, it is detrimental, particularly here in the US.

Now that I wholly agree with, but can we please leave the politics out of this? Thanks.