My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

[nodir]

yada-yada

i still remember when they brought in the EU regulations, and the outcry it caused in people who'd already been buying organic, in germany.
now, in my new home finland, people don't even know this. they don't understand that there's degrees of organic. and i mean the people eating it, not the average ignorant.
yet another thing that people see as either/or, when in reality it's a matter of degrees.

Yup, i do remember that outrage well too.
Back then i cared enough to investigate a bit. EU norm loosely translates to:
We don't add any extra poison. Only if we need to ("need to" not really being defined anywhere). And no controls (well: you can get a letter: in 6 months we will make a control ... but it hardly happens).


Hence EU-norm, buying at the local farmer (very hip too), buying on the marketplace, the "super food" mentioned above by cynwulf.
It boils down to giving the consumer a warm and fuzzy feelin and some window dressing.
Like usually in Germany you get the old moralism into the bargain. They don't miss a chance to rant about being the good and just ones. A pity there is no Nietzsche to be found who can express the disgust about them (both, the Germans and the good and just ones. "Die Guten und Gerechten" was his term,and it was his evergreen.
waste separation is even worse. They do it as a matter of heart (rather anus, hartd to believe people rant that much bout their garbage), while in fact they produce more plastic garbage then the rest of the EU ...


Not sure if i had a point. Probably just an outburst ....

[Randicus Draco Albus]

waste separation is even worse.

The city in Canada where I grew up got very heavy into garbage recycling. Big promotion campaigns for recycling, composting, etc. to reduce waste that resulted in people putting out their garbage in three containers with different colours. People could see the efforts they were making to improve the city by reducing the waste going into the landfill. It was actually a good thing to encourage people to waste less, but almost everyone was oblivious to the fact that most of the garbage going into the landfill was industrial. So not much was accomplished. But everyone felt good.

The same with water rationing in Australia. Australians use far too much water on their arid island, so water resources were being depleted. When I was living there provincial governments brought in water rationing in the cities to conserve water. Watering lawns and washing cars every second day made the people feel good that they were doing their part to save the precious resource. Of course, the governments ignored the fact that 7/10ths of water use is for irrigating wet weather crops like wheat and oats that should not be grown in Australia.

Bottom line, people everywhere are bombarded with propaganda to make them concerned citizens about trivial things, while real problems are ignored. Keeps the world safe for corporate profits.

[nodir]

but almost everyone was oblivious to the fact that most of the garbage going into the landfill was industrial.

Exactly.
iirc here the garbage by citizens is ca 10 % (industrial is by far the biggest part. Same for electricity consumption, etc)

Keeps the world safe for corporate profits.

Exactly.
If the ones who produce the garbage are the same ones who make profit by recycling it, what sense would it make to reduce garbage production in the first place?

people everywhere are bombarded with propaganda to make them concerned citizens about trivial things,

exactly.

-
The short version: exactly

[cynwulf]

The same "chapter" of DxE have been at it again: https://www.brightonandhoveindependent. ... -1-8743524

You do have to admire their resolve. It must take some guts and they never know what kind of reaction they will get...

[golinux]

Wouldn't it be more humane to protest the immanent dismemberment of humans?

[cynwulf]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-military

More like "skynet".

So far, the reporting on the Pentagon’s AI spending spree has largely focused on the prospect of autonomous weapons – Terminator-style killer robots that mow people down without any input from a human operator. This is indeed a frightening near-future scenario, and a global ban on autonomous weaponry of the kind sought by the Campaign to Stop Killer Robots is absolutely essential.

It's been in the realm of sci-fi for decades, but if they can make it (even badly) they will of course make it, just like the H bomb. And as with that, you can't put it back in the box.

The objectives are quite obvious: A global elite can strike anywhere in the world, at any time and not spill a drop of precious national blood and avoid bad PR (plus it will probably be much cheaper than a traditional standing army, training pilots, etc).

It's good on paper until the whole thing goes wrong. In a way I'm glad I probably won't be alive to see the worst of it, but I do fear for the younger generation who inherit this horrible mess.

The essence of the problem, is that you have a whole generation of people walking around enslaved to their mobile devices. Effectively, every person in any reasonably developed country on earth is being profiled and tracked, GPS located, constantly feeding in all kinds of data, including audiovisual and in many cases even finger prints, retinas, etc. And in turn being fed with specially tailored "data" - as we saw from the Cambridge Analytica "psy ops" scandal.

Now lets suppose I was some random intelligence agency, who wanted a suitable patsy or two, to pin something on and just needed to find one or more individuals who just happened to fit the profile, in terms of gender, ethnicity, background, criminal record, recent movements, etc - and just happened to be in the right place at the right time (or wrong place at the wrong time), that option immediately becomes available with this kind of data (all in the "national interest" of course).

Taking off my favourite tin foil hat for a minute, lets just suppose there is no initial mal-intent - but the individuals just happen to fit the bill very nicely. And you have armed thugs kicking down your door because some software decided you are a threat.

This equates to locking up, or killing, someone because they might be a threat to national security.

Which takes us back onto the very shaky ground of "preemptive warfare" - of supposedly neutralising perceived threats before they become bigger real/threats...

And of course once it gets licenced out to some perhaps "less than democratic" nations - or said nations follow suit with their own implementations...

[nodir]

^^ yes, sure, not much can be added there.

This equates to locking up, or killing, someone because they might be a threat to national security.

Without a trial or anything the west usual uses as a reason which gives the right to invade other countries, shoot a few people and distribute canned food.

I thought military drones were already reality? bombing a wedding, any gathering of people , hitting a so called terrorist now and then, but usually not (and if, as said: without trial anyway).
I guess the point is that they are not fully automated yet. But we are already in a future i'd prefer to not have seen in my lifetime.

[Randicus Draco Albus]

The same "chapter" of DxE have been at it again: https://www.brightonandhoveindependent. ... -1-8743524

You do have to admire their resolve. It must take some guts and they never know what kind of reaction they will get...

Their propaganda is stupid. Talking about violence and baby animals. Even the most ignorant city dwellers know that animals and plants are harvested after they mature. A baby will not feed many people.

But then I find all such propaganda ridiculous. Unlike most people who have never left the cities they live in and food only exists in stores and restaurants, for a while in my childhood I had to kill my food before I ate it. So I have a very different perspective than many people.

It also annoys the hell out of me how people are becoming so concerned for life that eating animals is "murder", but at the same time those people have become completely desensitised to violence against humans. Half-a-dozen people killed in a shooting at a shopping centre is just another random act of violence and not important, but a pig was killed for food! The end of the world is nigh!

[Randicus Draco Albus]

Without a trial or anything the west usual uses as a reason which gives the right to invade other countries, shoot a few people and distribute canned food.

That is because in Europe and the United States tracking, spying on and detention without trial are sensible security measures. If they are done elsewhere it is an evil regime oppressing its people. Completely different.

[namibed]

Their propaganda is stupid. Talking about violence and baby animals. Even the most ignorant city dwellers know that animals and plants are harvested after they mature. A baby will not feed many people.

but they do just that.
lamb's meat is considered "better" than mutton, calf "better" than beef etc.
i even read somewhere that unborn lamb is considered a particular delicacy.
there's some decadence in that, esp. considering that the full-grown would yield more meat.

Half-a-dozen people killed in a shooting at a shopping centre is just another random act of violence and not important, but a pig was killed for food! The end of the world is nigh!

100% agree.