Discussions on Capitalism and GMOs.

[huggybear]

There is no chique in organic in this country, yet. Well, maybe in the cities. So, my best bet here is to shop at the local market and only buy seasonal veggies. With meat, I would have to hang out with local farmers and know when they slaughter what. I guess my only problem is procuring organic cereal, corn, legumes etc. as this is either not grown here or in the hands of big companies.

[golinux]

I guess my only problem is procuring organic cereal, corn, legumes etc. as this is either not grown here or in the hands of big companies.

Aye, there's the rub.

[MrJames]

Somehow, I seriously doubt corrupt justice systems, companies affording enough lobbyists and lawyers to circumvent anything, under the table political deals, war profiteering, and selling arms to the "enemy" was in the minds of Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, and all them other folks that founded my country...
How did things ever get this far from what was intended?

I did never, and never will, understand how one can speak of a country as _my_ country.
It is the country i was born, by accident (I could also have been born in Norway or Poland or Hungary) It is for sure _not_ my country (speaking of "my town" would make a bit more sense to me. I know it, i know the people, i know the way they talk, they make fun, etc.. I can understand a Turk from Cologne better than a German from Munich).

"…whence came all these people? They are a mixture of English, Scotch, Irish, French, Dutch, Germans, and Swedes... What, then, is the American, this new man? He is neither a European nor the descendant of a European; hence that strange mixture of blood, which you will find in no other country. I could point out to you a family whose grandfather was an Englishman, whose wife was Dutch, whose son married a French woman, and whose present four sons have now four wives of different nations. He is an American, who, leaving behind him all his ancient prejudices and manners, receives new ones from the new mode of life he has embraced, the new government he obeys, and the new rank he holds. . . . The Americans were once scattered all over Europe; here they are incorporated into one of the finest systems of population which has ever appeared." − J. Hector St. John de Crevecoeur, Letters from an American Farmer.

[nadir]

If it was me i wouldn't ask a farmer for political advice.
Anyway: That might be or not be. It still is not your country.
It is a bit of romantic chat.
It might be something which is good in USA (i doubt that its true in general. You can easily point to families where father and mother are Italian,sons and daughters are and the ones they married too). But something good can be said about any country.
So what? 1770 - 1830 was an awesome time in the countries which partly spoke German (and partly other languages too). Does this make it my country? Can i be proud of it? If i can be proud of it, why? There lived someone in Weimar and he wrote some cool stuff. That is 200 years ago. Now i can be proud, because of what he did? Poland is more close to Weimar than where i live, can a dude form Poland be proud of it too (of something which someone else did, like said)? If no, why not?

If you think it is your country, fine. Travel to the other end of the country and try to get somewhere with that.
"Hello, this is my country, i want chips and a beer, please"
I can tell you in advance: You will get nothing for your "my country". OK, perhaps a warm feeling.

huggybear: i missed the term irrational, and that was exactly what i meant.

[Randicus Draco Albus]

I did never, and never will, understand how one can speak of a country as _my_ country.

I completely agree, and it's also very tiring to live in a political organisation (country, NATO pact, whatever) that abuses the peoples' irrational 'love' for said country in order to manipulate them into going to war for... well, making politicians richer and getting precious resources. Rather sad actually.

There is nothing mysterious about it. It is the world's largest religion - nationalism. It was created in Europe after Christianity declined and has spread to the rest of the world. Anthems, flags, pledges of allegiance, et cetera, were created to make the state (an abstract political entity) an object of worship, so people will love their country. Not only should people obey the rulers, but suggesting a change to the system is sacrilege. Hence if someone suggests the political and/or economic system is not perfect, the oft-heard phrase is used, "If you don't like it here, move to ..." (Been there more than once. )

Randicus wrote: A system of private ownership, where people are free to earn a living by selling the products of their own labour.

I could have sworn the main ideas was a system where one can let others work and sell the products they have produced. I could swear that that was and is reality too (while what you say is the propaganda). HIstory and facts will rather show that my idea is right than yours.
The word itself -> "capitalism" tells it to us. You make money with money, not with work (and for sure not by working yourself). Stock exchange is the most decadent form of that idea (it has got nothing to do with products at all. Boys playing with boys, similar to a casino).

That is Smithsonian capitalism.

[nadir]

That assumes there is a different one, a nice one.
If so, point to it.
Not in theory, in history or in a certain region.
To be clear:
where it's success didn't base on either
- exploiting the own population (aka workers and partly slaves)
- exploiting other countries population
- going for war; or being able to sell due to a war which took place; or selling products for war (in the case of Germany, for example)
- support dictators in countries which then either bought or sold products

So, where is the nice capitalistic system where people where happily and autark create products and sell them?
It might be i have missed it, but i sure have not heard of it yet. It sure was not GB in the early years of that system.

[vbrummond]

My word to people who say 'oh just move'. The world is not so black and white.

[lester]]

The conversation brings me back to my youth when I used to play war with plastic army men. And the doll for boys GI Joe.
As opposed to Barbie and Ken for the girls.
As a kid we play with the toys we get or find or make ourselves.
Not really knowing what or why we play with such things.
I guess culture, transactions with others, behavior/parenting and our environment all have something to do with who we are and what we do.
@ Randicus, I'm not familiar with Smithsonian Nationalism, probably because I'm living under it. Thanks for mentioning it.

On another note, since I seem to have started this thread,
Is it true that Monsantos' {patent pending] roundup ready corn, is registered as an insecticide?
It would make sense if the corn is meant to make ethanol to power our cars.
Oh wait: we can feed that stuff to our livestock and eat ourselves as well, right?
wtf is next?

I can hear the machine whispering in the background " you don't want to know"

[cynwulf]

Nationalism is one of the pillars of any right wing political system. Keep the unwashed divided and directing their hatred at immigrants and foreigners and you've already won half the battle. When it comes to war time and you want "half the poor to kill the other half" - that's the second half of the battle.

[Roel]

Does this make it my country? Can i be proud of it? If i can be proud of it, why?

I used to be rather glad to be born in the country I live in. Over the past years, I have grown rather ashamed, which leads me to the question: if there is no real reason to be proud of "your" country, can there be a reason to be ashamed of it?