insights get wheezy distro on iMac G4?[generally solved]

[este_el_paz]

Folks:

I'm new to this list, but I'm here for "the linux love." I've been a GUI driver of Linux for 7 or 8 months after a decade or so of Mac experience. I've been trying to keep my PPC computers viable and that is what got me to Linux after a very short stint with fink . . . . Long story shortened, I have a debian based distro running on my iBook G4 and I upgraded it to the wheezy based distro without a problem--added myself to sudoers and that was about it. However, that has not been the story when using the same mini.iso to load my iMac G4 800MHz . . . the same mini.iso that worked on the iBook seemed to "successfully" install the OS, but after a week or so windows stopped working and pages started sliding down off the desktop. The forum moderator, suggested that the xorg.conf file should be installed, but when I tried to "wget" it I would get a "file not found" or something like that. And then after a few weeks more I couldn't log in to the desktop . . . booting up would go to "kernel panic" . . . . So, I went to a fresh mini.iso of wheezy, again same issues. That was end of December, then somebody said, oh, only November mini.iso was good and to wait until Jan, so January 29, 2012 I downloaded and burned that mini.iso and did the 3 or 4 hour installation once again . . . this time the desktop didn't seem to go beyond a unicolor. Many posts later on the forum got me to trying to log in in a TTY shell and try to "wget" the xorg.conf . . . but that also continued to fail. From an Freenode chat "wxl" suggested that the internet connection was probably broken and indeed when I code "ping google" . . . it indicates that the wired internet is not functioning??? I'm running a 10.4.11 partition on the same computer and I have a connection, and when the mini.iso is installing the system . . . it works, "successfully" . . . but it's not really working; it's not even booting up as a TTY each and every time. I've got a huge thread on the distro forum and the guy has given up--just saying, "google is your friend . . ." but it seems like there are a number of issues that are creating a perfect storm of failure for the iMac. Is this a common problem with wheezy on desktop macs? I had no problem installing on the iBook and I also have LMDE installed on my MBPro . . . after a couple of hiccups and a couple of command line tweaks it's up and running. I think I did 5 re-installs on the LMDE, but they are only 10 - 15 minutes pre installation, on the wheezy distro it's 3 to 4 hours . . . and after 2 or 3 of those that's a lot more time flushed down the proverbial tubes of time. It's likely operator error, but, the operator doesn't know what is the problem . . . first step would be to try to repair the broken ethernet, but I believe the output of "iwconfig" looks like it should . . . so far all the hints for troubleshooting have not provided any clear insights--so the recommend from the forum is "do another re-install" . . . but it's a home computer and I'm away from it more than I am with it. The question is whether to try this distro that is based on wheezy, or just go on to the straight Debian wheezy for PPC which I also have burned and waiting? Would that get me into cleaner waters, or is there some wheezy issue with iMac such that it wouldn't matter which system I install? Thinking back to the middle of last year I don't think I got any LiveDVD, Ubuntu, this other distro, to run well, if at all on the iMac, but each of them ran without a problem on the iBook. Sorry for the ramble, but it's just been a conundrum trying to get Linux going on that machine, any thoughts would be appreciated.

e.e.p.

[nadir]

Is this a common problem with wheezy on desktop macs?

I need to hunt for a xorg.conf too.
Try to pick your poison from here: http://mac.linux.be/content/xorgconf-files
If you got a working one make sure to save it very safely.

I am not sure if Ubuntu, assuming that is the distro you speak of, does still support ppc (actively).
I don't say using Debian will solve the problem, but if the last sentence is true it might be an idea to switch to Debian
(or Arch, Fedora, BSD-based-ones).

on the distro forum and the guy has given up--just saying, "google is your friend . . ."

what a lamer.

[huggybear]

I am not sure if Ubuntu ... does still support ppc (actively).

It's still community supported, but not officially. What does that mean? Well, less bug hunting for the architecture and probably no way to buy support for the software.
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPC

[este_el_paz]

nadir/Huggybear:

Thanks kindly for the replies, much appreciated; I just wanted to add that I read the "how to get your post answered" post . . . partially, I was thinking, wow, this is like one of my posts . . . lots of self-reflection, navel gazing commentary etc, but I want to identify myself as an "End User" type . . . I'm not a hacker, I'm just a GUI guy, although I enjoy watching the command line run "sudo apt update" . . . I'm a User . . . that's what I do . . . except that in this case there is a confluence of issues that are getting in the way of personal satisfaction in completing this project. : - ))))))

Is this a common problem with wheezy on desktop macs?

I need to hunt for a xorg.conf too.
Try to pick your poison from here: http://mac.linux.be/content/xorgconf-files
If you got a working one make sure to save it very safely.

@nadir: right now the xorg.conf is not the issue, it's the "imac8.txt" file that would be the proper file; the problem is that among other problems, the installation of the OS somehow has broken the ethernet connection so that when I try to run "wget http://mac.linux.be/imac8.txt" (whatever the exact command is has been well discussed and isn't the problem) the command brings back "file or directory not found" but nothing else is said . . . and the problem after many months is diagnosed as "the ethernet connection is broken" . . . but the "how to fix it" is "reinstall the OS" with some recommendation for using "expert install" in the yaboot command--and then making some choices for installing "SSH" and "rescue" so that it might be easier to repair the installation . . . . And that may be the best or only option, the only deterrent is that finding the 3 to 4 hours of semi-exclusive time is rough, especially after it has failed at least two times . . . and then the other issue is that I have no formal computer education since 38 years ago high school class with the dial-up modem with the phone headset and the IBM punch cards . . . . I've got the basics now in terms of setting up the disk partitions and then running the "apt update" stuff but in terms of having some ideas about how to troubleshoot a problem . . . nothing--I know there is a sources list and I may have been asked to check it in one of my installs . . . and I can run terminal commands if I am either told what to run or where to find the web page that has the options posted etc, etc--but not enough to know how to get to what should be checked first. So, the issue is, could this ethernet issue be reasonably diagnosed and repaired from a TTY shell, and then it might be easy to "wget" the xorg.conf and the problem might be solved?? Is it best to re-install once more the system that I've already used, OR, switch to the base Debian wheezy . . . or is it futile to try to get a Linux OS running on an iMac G4?? One of the posters on my thread who has clearly more knowledge posted what he had to do to get "nv" or "nouveau" running on his iMac and it was a long string of "Linux 1 video=ofonly dvi1, but not dvi2, blacklist this and modprobe that, other stuff, and then other stuff after that" each time he got to the second Yaboot prompt . . . seems too complicated to be practical????

I am not sure if Ubuntu, assuming that is the distro you speak of, does still support ppc (actively).
I don't say using Debian will solve the problem, but if the last sentence is true it might be an idea to switch to Debian
(or Arch, Fedora, BSD-based-ones).

It's not Ubuntu that is the unnamed distro . . . I'm not trying to complain about or flame the distro, just that it hasn't worked on the iMac, but then also none of the LiveDVD's that I tried did either, when the exact same items worked without a problem on my iBook.

on the distro forum and the guy has given up--just saying, "google is your friend . . ."

what a lamer.

Well, he's just one guy and I guess he's figured the "cost/benefit" ratio was exceeded for him??? but it is his distro, so one would think he might be interested?? I do need to educate myself more about Linux, but I've got a lot of other things going on as well, and this little project of getting Linux partitions going on all my machines is basically only to help me move away from the borg-like consumerism of the present mac business model . . . and then learn as I'm using along the way. On the laptops it went cleanly, on the desktop . . . very messy. Another question, the only operator error that I can think of would be that on the iMac I had USB cables for printer and firewire cables for external harddrive plugged in to the computer--**but NOT turned on**--whereas on my two laptops I didn't . . . would that Break an install and cause kernel panics and render the ethernet use-able during installation but afterward . . . busted???

e.e.p.

e.e.p.

[nadir]

a)

the installation of the OS somehow has broken the ethernet connection

I got that right:
The problem is that you have got internet during installation, but after installation you lose it?


b)

iMac G4 800MHz . .

Which distribution do you install on the iMac G4 ?
I got that right, the iMac G4 is the one causing trouble right ?


c)

I've got a huge thread on the distro forum

Please give a link to that thread.


You say you ain't got that much time. If you ask me:
In that case i would not waste much time trying to get the G4 working. It is good for cli-only, or for fun-projects, but you won't have much fun for the way the Web and a computer is used today.
I don't say: don't do it. It's fun, sure. But _if_ you ain't got much time, there might be better things to do...
(to me ppc is very time consuming, and often i don't find a solution at all, after days of searching).

[JohnDeere630]

You say you ain't got that much time. If you ask me:
In that case i would not waste much time trying to get the G4 working. It is good for cli-only, or for fun-projects, but you won't have much fun for the way the Web and a computer is used today.
I don't say: don't do it. It's fun, sure. But _if_ you ain't got much time, there might be better things to do...
(to me ppc is very time consuming, and often i don't find a solution at all, after days of searching).

+1 That has been my experience as well, FWIW

[este_el_paz]

Gents: Thanks for the sage wisdom . . . indeed it may be that letting it go is the better part of valor, but my life has always been about the futile effort . . . "mongo no understand the game of life" . . . . But, indeed, it's not that I need to get this system installed right this minute, but this is a learning experience, it's an exercise in computer science. However, as apple has totally dropped support for PPC at some point having a somewhat up to date browser will in fact be necessary when the browsers I use drop 10.4.11 from their support as well. So, time is something that I don't have to waste, but for down the road a piece the time I can take now to get Linux going on this computer will let me do the basics with it. And after so many months of trying to get this working it's kind of a blood feud at this point . . . the more resistance there is from something the more I want to do it . . . leading back to the futility and the need for it in my life. I don't need to look at videos, but I do a lot of email, and sometimes streaming music . . . having a Linux partition going will let me keep this computer going for doing basic routine tasks.

a)

the installation of the OS somehow has broken the ethernet connection

I got that right:
The problem is that you have got internet during installation, but after installation you lose it?

Yes, that is the primary issue that is interfering . . . the base system is installed, but I can't "apt update/upgrade" or "wget the xorg.conf" . . . the "iwconfig" output however seems to look normal or as recommended.

b)

iMac G4 800MHz . .

Which distribution do you install on the iMac G4 ?
I got that right, the iMac G4 is the one causing trouble right ?

Yes, iMac G4 800 Mhz with 600 +-MHz Ram??? This is MintPPC that I've been trying to get going on the iMac after doing a partition on the iBook with little problem.

c)

I've got a huge thread on the distro forum

Please give a link to that thread.

I'll have to post back with that link . . . right now it's ten forum pages long so it's a loooonnnnnggggg story . . . . I'll get to that when I get a chance--it would provide the deep background, but it might also just be "too much information."


e.e.p.

[JohnDeere630]

In the past, I ran into a similar problem; the ethernet would work with the installer, but fail when the machine booted the first time. On non ppc hardware, the issue was always resolved by installing a newer kernel by downloading or building it on another machine, then copying the relevant packages to the afflicted machine and doing a local install. However, I haven't had to do that since sarge and the 2.4x kernel days. Again, FWIW

[este_el_paz]

In the past, I ran into a similar problem; the ethernet would work with the installer, but fail when the machine booted the first time. On non ppc hardware, the issue was always resolved by installing a newer kernel by downloading or building it on another machine, then copying the relevant packages to the afflicted machine and doing a local install. However, I haven't had to do that since sarge and the 2.4x kernel days. Again, FWIW :)

Well, that's interesting . . . and probably beyond my skill level at this time. But, it gives me the idea that since I have a working version on the laptop, perhaps I could somehow copy it to the iMac?? by firewire??? But since it is a two partition disk I don't know whether I could boot the iMac as "target" and then drag and drop the iBook system into the iMac??? so that the right partition would be selected. And then be able to boot into it and download the xorg.conf file for the right machine?? But, usually in Mac the system is tailored to laptop or desktop and the twain shall never meet in terms of function . . . it's just not done. But in terms of installing Linux on a machine, does the system, the kernel, etc "care" what machine it is going on, or is it "gender neutral" in terms of whether it is laptop or desktop in the base kernel and then when the xorg.conf file would be installed that would then "specify" the type or machine?? so that I could "dump" some files from the iBook into the iMac such that it would get me into a fixed ethernet and working system??

But, then, this also gets back to the question of "the broken ethernet" . . . how is that manifested or identified?? Like in my case, the "iwconfig" output seems to be correct, and therefore it should be working . . . but isn't. How else can the ethernet be tested in the terminal TTY shell so that it might identify what is broken? It would be nice if there would be a simple, simple, solution to fixing the internet?????

e.e.p.

[JohnDeere630]

I doubt that copying anything from the lappy to the afflicted machine would help much. I know very little about mac hardware, so am mystified why the ethernet does't work on your G4. I seriously doubt the hardware is in any way too new for the kernel, in fact, I would bet that some piece of vital support for your machine has been deprecated in recent kernel versions, which, if true, could be solved (maybe) by installing an older kernel version, which in turn, may break some other part of the system. Again, I reiterate, I have very little experience with your type of machine, so I may be barking at the moon, but I wonder if the problem is firmware-related? (It does seem doubtful, since the thing works with the installer). The most likely explanation is that the system is not loading the proper kernel module for your hardware.

In answer to another of your questions re the kernel; yes the kernel is cpu architecture dependent. There are the various 586/686 versions for the older straight 32-bit x86 chips, amd64 for the modern 64-bit chips, (both amd and intel); the ia64 version for Intel's Itanium server chips, and the ppc version for the motorola (Mac) chips. The kernel versions are NOT interchangeable among the various cpu architectures. It seems that you do have the correct (PPC) kernel for your hardware, or more than just the ethernet wouldn't work.

The best advice I can give you is to see exactly what the system lists for components, try:

Code: Select all

lspci | grep -i ethernet

and then do a google search for that particular part.....