Yet another pointless discussion thread...

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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby nodir » November 8th, 2018, 10:05 am

What makes that script excellent?

It kinda makes sense to automate 5 commands, but i fail to see how one could automate them in an excellent way.
And i fail big times in being able to imagine any exellence there.
If i type "mkdir directory", is that already excellence?
Is this little chroot and a wee bit more also excellent ? https://notabug.org/n4dir/scripts/src/m ... ora_chroot

You sure you are in the position to give recommendations, btw?
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Re: another distro: dragora

Postby cynwulf » November 8th, 2018, 2:04 pm

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:AMD graphics cards have never offered acceleration without firmware, no.

Yes, the firmware is closed source, as it always has been.

And yes, I know what firmware is :)

So "AMD have gone open source"? Yes or no?

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:OK, let me try again, perhaps you will learn something...

So now, after reading some Larabel articles, you're in the position to lecture people on the Linux graphics stack...?

Bye head stick.

:lol:
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby golinux » November 8th, 2018, 4:11 pm

Awww . . . I'm starting to feel sorry for stickie. He just wants someone to prop up his low self esteem and no one here is cooperating. He needs to get a life but easier said than done. I suggest maybe 6 months minimum in silence with no reading, writing, interactions etc. just with himself. Maybe then he could sort some of the confusion.
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby JohnDeere630 » November 8th, 2018, 6:14 pm

golinux wrote:Awww . . . I'm starting to feel sorry for stickie. He just wants someone to prop up his low self esteem and no one here is cooperating. He needs to get a life but easier said than done. I suggest maybe 6 months minimum in silence with no reading, writing, interactions etc. just with himself. Maybe then he could sort some of the confusion.


6 months of just HoaS? That is as close to Hell as I can imagine. I wouldn't wish such a ghastly fate on anyone, even HoaS himself. Nobody deserves that! :lol:
$500 bounty paid for each pair of SJW balls...also for hen's teeth, unicorn horns and other imaginary items.
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » November 8th, 2018, 8:58 pm

nodir wrote:What makes that script excellent?

It automates the chroot setup (along with several other neat tricks) and is available in a "live" ISO image that is updated with the latest kernel version at the start of every month.

Sounds excellent to me :)

nodir wrote:If i type "mkdir directory", is that already excellence?

Sure, why not?

"Excellence" is just an opinion, right?

As the saying goes: opinions are like arseholes — everybody's got one :mrgreen:

nodir wrote:Is this little chroot and a wee bit more also excellent ? https://notabug.org/n4dir/scripts/src/m ... ora_chroot

It is indeed an excellent script, thanks for sharing.

Let's compare the Dragora chroot:
Code: Select all
# mount_chroot
mount_chroot() {
   mount -o bind /proc "$chroot_dir"/proc
#   mount --rbind /dev "$chroot_dir"/dev
   mount -o bind /dev "$chroot_dir"/dev
   mount -o bind /sys  "$chroot_dir"/sys
   chroot "$chroot_dir"
}

With the Arch version:
Code: Select all
chroot_setup() {
  CHROOT_ACTIVE_MOUNTS=()
  [[ $(trap -p EXIT) ]] && die '(BUG): attempting to overwrite existing EXIT trap'
  trap 'chroot_teardown' EXIT

  chroot_add_mount proc "$1/proc" -t proc -o nosuid,noexec,nodev &&
  chroot_add_mount sys "$1/sys" -t sysfs -o nosuid,noexec,nodev,ro &&
  ignore_error chroot_maybe_add_mount "[[ -d '$1/sys/firmware/efi/efivars' ]]" \
      efivarfs "$1/sys/firmware/efi/efivars" -t efivarfs -o nosuid,noexec,nodev &&
  chroot_add_mount udev "$1/dev" -t devtmpfs -o mode=0755,nosuid &&
  chroot_add_mount devpts "$1/dev/pts" -t devpts -o mode=0620,gid=5,nosuid,noexec &&
  chroot_add_mount shm "$1/dev/shm" -t tmpfs -o mode=1777,nosuid,nodev &&
  chroot_add_mount run "$1/run" -t tmpfs -o nosuid,nodev,mode=0755 &&
  chroot_add_mount tmp "$1/tmp" -t tmpfs -o mode=1777,strictatime,nodev,nosuid
}

Now I'm no expert (as we all know) but the standout differences for me are the fact that `arch-chroot` mounts /dev/pts (which is required for APT) and /sys/firmware/efi/efivars, the latter is required for new NVRAM boot entries to be made in a UEFI system and the `grub-install` step will fail otherwise.

The Arch script also has some extra checks for dealing with /etc/resolv.conf if it is a symlink.

nodir wrote:You sure you are in the position to give recommendations, btw?

I must have installed Debian from Arch Linux about 20 times so yes, I think I am for this particular case.
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Re: another distro: dragora

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » November 8th, 2018, 9:03 pm

cynwulf wrote:So "AMD have gone open source"? Yes or no?

AMD now contribute directly to the development of xserver-xorg-video-amdgpu, this was not the case with xserver-xorg-video-ati so I would give credit where it is due: AMD now match Intel in respect of open source (DDX) driver development and both are as good as it gets for open video drivers in Linux (sadly), and certainly better than NVIDIA.
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » November 8th, 2018, 9:04 pm

golinux wrote:He just wants someone to prop up his low self esteem and no one here is cooperating

Oh, don't worry, I have plenty of smoke up my arse from other forums :mrgreen:

I like posting here because I can relax and be myself.
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby nodir » November 8th, 2018, 9:21 pm

Head_on_a_Stick wrote:
nodir wrote:You sure you are in the position to give recommendations, btw?

I must have installed Debian from Arch Linux about 20 times so yes, I think I am for this particular case.

To recommend a debootstrap installation from arch over other host systems, the amount of times you did from arch doesn't matter. From how many other distributions you did it would matter.

-R, --rbind
Remount a subtree and all possible submounts somewhere else (so
that its contents are available in both places). See above, the
subsection Bind mounts.
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby Head_on_a_Stick » November 8th, 2018, 9:27 pm

nodir wrote:From how many other distributions you did it would matter.

I've done it from Debian live image and also used my Alpine Linux system to lay down Debian on another partition.

The (official) installation guide to which I linked does say:
This section explains how to install Debian GNU/Linux from an existing Unix or Linux system, without using the menu-driven installer as explained in the rest of the manual. This “cross-install” HOWTO has been requested by users switching to Debian GNU/Linux from Red Hat, Mandriva, and SUSE.

So I would expect it to work from any Unix-like environment that can mount a Linux filesystem (rw).

EDIT: also, Arch has debootstrap in [Community], which is nice:

https://www.archlinux.org/packages/comm ... bootstrap/

EDIT2: as does Alpine Linux:

https://pkgs.alpinelinux.org/package/ed ... ebootstrap

EDIT3: I suppose the best option would be grml, I forgot about that tbh :oops:
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Re: Yet another pointless discussion thread...

Postby nodir » November 8th, 2018, 9:36 pm

You don't get my point.
You don't need to recommend anything to me when it comes to debootstrap.
I told you about a flaw in your how-to, which you didn't mention in that how-to.
There really is nothing exciting about a debootstrap installation (or a chroot one, which is not uncommon for other distros but debian, say Gentoe).

I yet have to find a distro which doesn't have debootstrap. Probably there are some though. Turn on your brain, and you will remember that i told you that you will even find it in FreeBSD.
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