My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Talk about anything you feel like talking about. Pull up a soapbox and pontificate to your heart's content. May contain some adult humour or otherwise objectionable content (NSFW). No warez, pr0n or illegal stuff.

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby debil » December 20th, 2018, 11:28 am

Jesus... A wholesome vegan diet with supplementary B12 (and plant based D3 if living in part of the world where sunlight is sparse) is enough to keep a human alive. I think it goes without saying that when making dietary changes, one should take in necessary information and act accordingly in order to stay healthy. If one is heavily into sports, read up on stuff even more. Google vegan bodybuilders, athletes etc. Nowadays there are plant based products that have even "more complete" amino acid profile than any kind of meat has (Gold & Green's Pulled Oats, for example). Even with traditional vegetables, legumes, fruits, lentils, beans, grains et al people have managed well throughout centuries. Over consumption of animal products, on the other hand, is been repeatedly proven to be bad for your health.

For me veganism is not a religion, but an idealism. It's about choosing a lesser evil. If you can choose from two diets, one that requires killing of animals and the other that doesn't, why are you choosing the one that requires killing? It's a simple question that ushered me to investigate plant based options some five years ago. A book or two, few documentaries and quite a bit of online reading later, I was happily vegan. At the start it was mostly cheese that I missed but after learning to make all kinds of hummus and bean pastes to use in sandwiches, it has been hunky dory. Nowadays the plant based cheeses and other products that imitate traditional animal products are practically everywhere, so the transition period can be even more trivial.

Oh yeah, the fish bleed and have flesh, so they're meat too.
Ultimimate fanboi edition contributor
debil
 
Posts: 662
Joined: February 9th, 2011, 12:02 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby nodir » December 20th, 2018, 12:26 pm

cynwulf wrote:...
nodir wrote:meat isn't listed at all, mainly fish

I suppose interpretations differ, but to me at least fish=meat=an animal. Fish is a vertebrate after all.

debil wrote:Oh yeah, the fish bleed and have flesh, so they're meat too.

No matter how you look at it, interpretate it, they differ more than just a bit in their ingredients, the quality, the quantity, and such (the taste too, how hard times it gives you after eating, mainly if too much, etc).
And in that case my point was what it offers for humans (my point was also the one of the book, btw).
(sidenote: meat itself differs quite a bit too, as my/the books short lists shows. liver, that is not something people have in mind, anymore, when they speak of meat, though it is the only impressive source in that list)

In germany it usually does get differed. Hence the famous german proverb: "it is neither fish nor meat" (Das ist weder Fisch noch Fleisch). kinda means: half-hearted, but doesn't really mean that. More as in: "do this *or* do that, decide, but don't do both". Well: wishy-washy is probably a good translation.
You can say "Fischfleisch" (the meat of fish), but it is done very seldom, rather not at all. You usually just say fish (or meat, duh).

Also many, if not most, people who eat meat (again: here), don't eat fish. And if they do, sure not those huge amounts.
If you invite someone for dinner and promise him meat, but then offer fish(-meat), you might well run in problems (as in: disappoint him).

But, as said, the main point was that it usualy isn't hard to find a source for any given ingredient. You will have to do a quick web-search, for example.

-
Else, in general, i do agree with what debil said.
Not saying i didn't agree with that part, only that in general *here* there is a distinction, and quite a big one.
It is anything but impossible to get all you need if you are vegan. Samelike i wouldn't take it for granted you do get anything you want if you eat meat. You sure don't get it by that alone, there is a bit more to it. So if people care for such questions, then don't care of the problems of vegetarians or vegans, as long you are not one yourself, but rather bout your own. Or just ignore the problem, seems to work too.
nodir
 
Posts: 307
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:10 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby nodir » December 20th, 2018, 12:53 pm

debil wrote:J Google vegan bodybuilders, athletes etc.

Yup. From the top of my head: Jake Mace, a martial artist from the US
else i don't like him that much, too much hocus-pocus.
And as said way earlier: at least the docus i know about Shaolin Kung Fu temples claim the food would be vegan.
(friend of mine is in Kung Fu, and skating, and ... , and wants to go to such a temple, he claims the same, and couldn't go there if it wasn't like that).
To someone like me they seem to be in superhuman-like good shape.

Professional sport artists, soccer and american football etc, seem to be advised by their nutrition advisers to either eat way less animal products, or to even to give up on a part of it ( dairy products). Actually. Probably not all, but whenever i see such a docu, it boils down to that.

short version: you will easily find tons of examples.
nodir
 
Posts: 307
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:10 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby cynwulf » December 20th, 2018, 1:03 pm

debil wrote:Even with traditional vegetables, legumes, fruits, lentils, beans, grains et al people have managed well throughout centuries. Over consumption of animal products, on the other hand, is been repeatedly proven to be bad for your health.

Unless you're talking about India, which has more vegetarians and vegans than the rest of the world put together, you probably won't find meaningful data on the long term health effects - even then you probably still won't find any meaningful data. In India in particular it has religious origins, but in modern times, it's usually a matter of poverty, so the issue has become clouded.

India has one of the world’s highest demographics of children suffering from malnutrition – said to be double that of Sub-Saharan Africa with dire consequences

https://www.savethechildren.in/articles ... state-wise

In "the west" Veganism tends to be an individual adult life style choice, but there is not enough data to show what the health effects would be from birth.
cynwulf
 
Posts: 2548
Joined: April 26th, 2011, 2:46 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby nodir » December 20th, 2018, 1:23 pm

but compared with China they got freedom and democracy. Isn't that great?
nodir
 
Posts: 307
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:10 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby JohnDeere630 » December 20th, 2018, 7:31 pm

debil wrote:Jesus...

For me veganism is not a religion, but an idealism.



That's cool. Nobody is trying to convince you to change. To each his own, and all that.

On another, but somewhat related topic, it amuses me to hear folks extol the virtues of soybean products, as though soybeans are a panacea from Heaven, but when I ask these Grand Arbiters of What Other People Should Do how soybean oil is extracted, they have no clue. Some think it's pressed out, and while that may have been true in the past, now it is much cheaper to dissolve the oil with hexane, and boil off the hexane. For those that don't know much about organic chemistry, hexane is one of the chief components of gasoline, and is a known carcinogen. Soybeans are also full of phyto-estrogens. I can't find the link now, and it may be just bullshit anyway, but I remember reading an article that linked diets high in soybean products to decreased penis size and infertility in males, and increased incidents of ovarian and cervical cancers in females, especially if their early childhood diets were heavy on soybeans. OTOH, maybe anything that decreases fertility in humans is a good thing? LOL. Anyway, to each his own.
$500 bounty paid for each pair of SJW balls...also for hen's teeth, unicorn horns and other imaginary items.
JohnDeere630
 
Posts: 1547
Joined: February 9th, 2011, 6:38 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby golinux » December 20th, 2018, 8:12 pm

JohnDeere630 wrote:Some think it's pressed out, and while that may have been true in the past, now it is much cheaper to dissolve the oil with hexane, and boil off the hexane. For those that don't know much about organic chemistry, hexane is one of the chief components of gasoline, and is a known carcinogen. Soybeans are also full of phyto-estrogens.

This is true. I once had a very interesting chat with the Silk folks and what I heard was stomach churning. Cultures where soy is a traditional part of the diet ferment/culture much of it - shoyu, tamari, miso, tempeh - to increase B12 and negate the harmful effects of tofu which is highly processed. Soy should never be used in deserts and high protein supplements brimming with soy are a recipe for health collapse. I eat a small amount of tofu almost every day. And I use traditional unpasteurized shoyou and miso too. Been doing it since the 70s and it has worked for me. At 76 no chronic conditions other than structural - cranky back - no doctors, no pharma.
May the FORK be with you!
User avatar
golinux
 
Posts: 1117
Joined: July 23rd, 2011, 4:45 pm
Location: not a 'buntard!

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby nodir » December 20th, 2018, 8:18 pm

golinux wrote: Cultures where soy is a traditional part of the diet ferment/culture much of it - shoyu, tamari, miso, tempeh - to increase B12 and negate the harmful effects of tofu which is highly processed.

I heard the same, also quite a few decades ago.
Never cared that much about the details, but it might well be that (B12) is what i had in mind when i said "fermented" above.
And who would want to deny the positive effects of sourkraut? Sure not a German.

Speaking of the germs, here is one, and i've been following him all year when it comes to food (i pretty much stick to what he advises, minus the chicken, though it is just the usual bodybuiler diet. Nothing special Rühl says, only he has a funny, non-serious way to put it. A pity you folks won't understand his humor):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meaKB4UaRoI
and here is his typical foodlist, most of it you will recognize from how it looks (in short? rice, rice-waffels, oat. olive oil, peanut butter. tuna, nuts or almond, chicken, curd/curd-cheese/quark, eggs, Harz cheese, . brocoli. Thats about it).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRwQy8QrvGQ


Anyway: As long no one tries to take away my daily dose of oat, i am fine. That i will defend with my life.
nodir
 
Posts: 307
Joined: June 16th, 2015, 10:10 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby JohnDeere630 » December 20th, 2018, 9:14 pm

nodir wrote:Anyway: As long no one tries to take away my daily dose of oat, i am fine. That i will defend with my life.


:lol: Now I have a mental image of some moron trying to wrestle your bowl of oatmeal away from you.
Seriously, I love oatmeal myself, and start most days with a big bowl of it, usually with fresh heavy cream that was in the cow a few hours ago, and maple syrup. My wife makes some of the best oat bread anywhere. Add some fresh churned butter and strawberry jam, and you'll swear you'd died and gone to Heaven. Damn...now I'm hungry.... :lol:
$500 bounty paid for each pair of SJW balls...also for hen's teeth, unicorn horns and other imaginary items.
JohnDeere630
 
Posts: 1547
Joined: February 9th, 2011, 6:38 pm

Re: My Awesome Adventure (CoC debate)

Postby golinux » December 20th, 2018, 9:58 pm

nodir wrote:Anyway: As long no one tries to take away my daily dose of oat, i am fine. That i will defend with my life.

Oats are wonderful but I could not live without my grain mill. I use it almost every day . A friend recently brought me a loaf of bread made with love and flour from the organic bulk bins and sadly it was tasteless. And that is better than what most people eat.

A word of caution about peanut butter . . . can carry aflatoxins and molds that can wreak havoc with your gut. And don't get me started with dairy/cheese. This from Annemarie Colbin nails it.
May the FORK be with you!
User avatar
golinux
 
Posts: 1117
Joined: July 23rd, 2011, 4:45 pm
Location: not a 'buntard!

PreviousNext

Return to Nonsense

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron

x