Systemd discussion

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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » May 13th, 2016, 11:14 pm

Give me a break, the old "free speech" is being threatened argument just does not cut it. You are free to start any kind of forum or website you want, and say what you want on it.
:lol:
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The last time I had a short stint posting on FDN, the Debian Screenshots thread had more screen-grabs of other distributions than Debian. The reasoning being that those other distributions are based on Debian, so screen-grabs of those systems are appropriate in a Debian thread. So what is the fuss about a thread discussing other systems? After all, other OSes is a computer-related topic, which is allowed. Or would the screen-grab thread be locked if someone posted a Devuan image? For someone who appeared out-of-the-blue, was a moderator within a couple months and only made about twenty posts in his first year, he seems to take himself quite seriously.
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby JohnDeere630 » May 14th, 2016, 3:11 am

This thread is now locked*. Randicus used an emoticon that I found offensive, and Cynwulf used a curse word.













*Nah, just kidding.
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby golinux » May 14th, 2016, 3:24 am

Always a sense of humor . . . Nice to see you . . . We need a good flame war to liven this place up!
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » May 14th, 2016, 1:15 pm

You want a flame war? Alright.

Every time Lennard almost had the flames stomped out and made the Linux world tame,
the Devuan haters proded the embers back to life and rekindled the flame.

The Flame That Would Not Die yet again singed Lennard's backside,
and he howled in rage at the rising anti-systemd tide.

He pleaded in a tone that was incredulous,
"Why can they not see my genious?"

The Devuan fanatics danced around the pyre,
making threats that sounded dire.

All the while Debian loyalists about the conflict the truth and importance they did miss,
because they continued to live in ignorant bliss.
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby golinux » May 14th, 2016, 2:22 pm

LOL! It's Lennart btw. ;)
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby nodir » May 14th, 2016, 4:48 pm

cynwulf wrote:DragonFly is pretty good.

I booted the live-Stick, but it gave me a terminal. The purpose of it seems to be to install it.
While thinking about doing that (or not), i came to mind i could also try again to install tilda on Vector Linux, Slackware based. Last time i failed.
This time i used searchengines and it has worked.

Just doing some small-talk. The short story is that since i left Debian i am pretty much back to distro-hopping. All of the distros are fine, are doing the job, some are more comfortable than others (Salix being on top of the comfort-list), but i can't find the energy to spend any time in really understanding any of them.
Somewhere in between of them i will settle (Gentoo/Funtoo or Slackware based, perhaps something BSD like, and i sure will keep my eye on Dragora too).
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby cynwulf » May 15th, 2016, 1:06 pm

Like most *BSDs it's more geared towards servers. That's pretty much a given (no matter what some would have you believe). All the *BSDs have a core system which is the OS itself - the rest of what you install is from ports. With NetBSD and OpenBSD in particular, the focus of the core system is server stuff, not desktop functionality. For 'ready to go out of the box' desktops you're still faced with choosing from Linux distributions.

I don't remember much about getting X installed on DragonFly. If it's anything like FreeBSD, then it's probably just a case of installing it and your window manager from ports, setting up what you want to start in ~/.xinitrc and then just issuing startx - you might also need to start some other services such as messagebus and hal to get proper desktop functionality - so RTFM is unavoidable.

That's pretty much the route I take with any *BSD, except with OpenBSD where X is included (and I think with NetBSD as well, though I've only installed that a handful of times and never had any luck with it).
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby nodir » May 15th, 2016, 2:12 pm

I only wanted to have a quick look at any BSD, i don't care which, running live. Not sure if there is any useful live-CD, i don't think so. If i want to do that again, i will go for FreeBSD and install it.
Anyway: for now i am fiddling with Slackware or based and will keep Refracta installed (which is a no-brainer as it's debian-based).
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby cynwulf » July 4th, 2017, 10:20 pm

And finally someone who gets it:

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/61441/#post-353891

Unfortunately you do have to be outside of the goldfish bowl looking in to realise that it stinks and the water needs changing...

Amazing that so few even consider this:
But what is definitely true is that Linux, as usually distributed today, has gone down the path Windows blazed in the 90s and 2000s with NT: It's very complex, it's very black box, hard to manage and understand. The only difference is that you can run it without paying anyone; although in practice, if you want to use it in (commercial) production, you will need a support contract unless you are a superhero, because it is too complex to just work. From this viewpoint, systemd is exactly what the commercial Linux support ecosystem needs: it makes it more bizarre and complex, meaning that paid support becomes even more important. Note that Poettering's employer is also the largest vendor of Linux support.

I think it's true that Linux is now where windows was just after OS/2. It is in the pursuit of raw functionality to the detriment of all else. You will hear often that systemd 'works'. Well sorry, but so does Windows and so did Windows. In fact it quite arguably "works" far better. macOS also "works".

But it's not just home desktop users or hobbyists jumping on this bandwagon. If you go to many "questions and answers" sites, you will learn very quickly that your needs, wants and desires are in fact secondary and very trivial compared to the requirements of big business and making lazy "sysadmins" life as trouble free as possible. Your need to run a desktop is just pfffttt....... there are people in paid work who are managing hundreds of VMs simultaneously. The tools to do this, with as little effort, learning or application as possible are a top priority for a provider like Red Hat. The quality of the code and implemenation is secondary (if that).

What people seem to miss is that the sysadmins are in fact "customers", or on the payroll of said customers, of several big fortune 500 companies who directly employ or fund the big projects in the Linux eco system, To the big businesses involved, this is about "product", shareholders and cost saving.
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Re: Systemd discussion

Postby Pick2 » July 4th, 2017, 10:50 pm

'Severe' Systemd Bug Allowed Remote Code Execution For Two Years
https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/07/03/ ... -two-years
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