software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

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software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby meandean1 » September 9th, 2014, 6:30 pm

Just jotting down what I can install in jessie with
Code: Select all
Package: *systemd*
Pin: origin ""
Pin-Priority: -1

in /etc/apt/preferences



basics
xorg
alsa-base
alsa-utils



user environments & components
jwm
icewm
fluxbox
openbox
ratpoison
sawfish

fbpanel
lxpanel

deskmenu

razorqt-desktop
razorqt-panel
razorqt-runner
razorqt-session
razorqt-config



file managers
pcmanfm
xfe
doublecmd-gtk
doublecmd-qt
rox-filer




login manager
xdm
wdm
qingy




ide/editors
geany
scite
mousepad
leafpad


terminals
lxterminal
mrxvt
xterm
rxvt
roxterm


web browsers
iceweasel
chromium
arora
xxxterm
dillo
surf
netsurf
qupzilla


email clients
sylpheed
claws-mail



web software
filezilla
weechat
lostirc
irssi
aria2


office
abiword
gnumeric
osmo


misc
gourmet



audio/video
moc
vlc-nox



utilities
file-roller
xarchiver
grun
pmount


if anyone wants to add some....jump in...
Last edited by meandean1 on September 10th, 2014, 2:22 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: life without libsystemd

Postby polaris96 » September 9th, 2014, 7:44 pm

awesome
moc
vlc
clementine
scite
probably lyx but haven't confiremd it, yet
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby miroR » September 9th, 2014, 11:40 pm

( These packages don't depend neither on systemd nor on dbus )
mplayer/mencoder
ffmpeg
wireshark
qpdfview
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby FretfulMother » September 10th, 2014, 5:53 pm

apt-rdepends <package-name> | grep systemd
will show a couple of the above as requiring systemd,
for example vlc and clementine
(well: the professionals ... realities ... dreamworlds ... )

xmms2 doesn't depend on any systemd, xmms2-plugin-all does, i haven't figured out which of the plugins alone won't need it (because i don't care).
I don't even know which of xmms2 plugins i need and which i don't need, as of now i simply installed the metapackage.


This way or the other:
I think with the original list, the OP, one can get a long way.
Last edited by FretfulMother on September 10th, 2014, 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby FretfulMother » September 10th, 2014, 6:10 pm

meandean1 wrote:
ide/editors
geany
scite
mousepad
leafpad


Wat is dat?

vim
emacs
and didn't you use
nano
or at least liked it ?
codeblocks ?
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby allthatisthecase » September 10th, 2014, 7:42 pm

FretfulMother wrote:geany
scite
mousepad
leafpad


Sweet Big Bang, I think his suggestions depend on... :shock: X11!

http://xkcd.com/378/
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby dzz » September 17th, 2014, 11:21 pm

Today's experiment.. Not saying this is a long-term solution.. but it's working fine here at the moment!

Built a new sid (starting with debootstrap) on a spare Dell Inspiron 6400 intending to keep out systemd entirely.

Trinity Desktop (the full TDE metapackage) was installed with tdm (DM). Most of you will know TDE is the fork of KDE3, still actively developed with debs for Jessie. It idles ~120MB RAM and is stuffed with good applications.

lipulse0 from stable installed and version held.
dbus 1.5.8-1 (from snapshot.debian.org, the last with no *systemd* dependencies) installed and held.
cups from stable installed and version held

dbus (1.5.10-1) experimental; urgency=low

* New upstream release
* Merge from unstable
* Build with systemd console-user-checking support
* Use debhelper 9 (mainly for compressed, build-ID-based debug symbols),
and dpkg's default.mk instead of hardening-includes

-- Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> Tue, 21 Feb 2012 18:24:14 +0000


Code: Select all
dpkg -l|grep systemd

now returns nothing. Everything seems to work except suspend (maybe that is a non-systemd-related issue) including shutdown and mount/umount usb with normal notifications.

Upgrading dbus will bring libsystemd-login0
Upgrading libpulse0 (dependency of mplayer(2) and other multimedia apps) will bring libsystemd0
Upgrading cups will bring libsystemd0

I didn't expect these older versions to work but they do! (not tested printing yet). I don't know if or not those 2 systemd libs are anything to be concerned about however. Note libsystemd-login0 is a dbus dep also in Wheezy.

Other systems here have lightdm/xfce which has been a real battle. I ended up using sudo for shutdown/reboot and spacefm for handling usb mounts (it uses pmount | udevil | udisks) .. it's also a rather good file manager. I got to like xfce but the gtk stuff is getting too difficult without systemd as PID1.

Package list posted here: http://paste.debian.net/121658/ (cruft and bloat is intentional for this exercise also some custom and Refracta packages are in)
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby thatsbetterinit » September 27th, 2014, 4:21 am

my hope is that between uselessd, pinning and jessie reaching release, the list will get longer again. i'm not asking anyone to be optimistic, you're perfectly entitled to your pessimism. i haven't used debian long enough to be discouraged yet, but i never fell in love with gentoo at all.

it's kind of shocking that the list of non-adopters is so short. when has everyone agreed so universally to adopt something this far from ready? (i mean across distros, not users of debian.) i miss the days when we could just point at upstart and laugh.
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » September 27th, 2014, 6:18 am

thatsbetterinit wrote:when has everyone agreed so universally to adopt something this far from ready?

Amazing things can be accomplished with lots of money and copious amounts of clever propaganda. The people behind this nonsense want to create an OS that can compete with Windows, and make lots of money for their companies by selling services to the users. After Linux is transformed into a Windows-style system and most distributions have been removed (After all, "fragmentation" is the bane of Linux. Ask Poettering.), it would not be a surprise if the remaining locked-down systems are no longer distributed free-of-charge, but with a lower cost than the competition. So of course those companies have thrown heaps of money wheel barrows of propaganda behind systemd.
Klingons are fun, but Romulans are the sexiest women in the galaxy.
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Re: software that doesn't depend on *systemd*

Postby thatsbetterinit » September 27th, 2014, 7:16 am

Randicus Draco Albus wrote:
thatsbetterinit wrote:when has everyone agreed so universally to adopt something this far from ready?
Amazing things can be accomplished with lots of money and copious amounts of clever propaganda.


agreed, but just in case the unwashed masses come up with their own clever retorts, it's better to have clever propaganda and a shutdown of open discussion. i'm not just amused by the backlash so far, i'm proud to see it. and this despite remaining (so far) a fan of debian.

After Linux is transformed into a Windows-style system and most distributions have been removed (After all, "fragmentation" is the bane of Linux. Ask Poettering.)


fragmentation is the bane of people who are accustomed to being uniform, and uniformity makes it easier for everyone to be controlled. best of all, because these aren't 1:1 causal, the gray area is perfect for plausible denial and dismissing all criticism as "conspiracy theories."

here's the funny thing though: no matter how many untrustworthy people with power (even pretend authority, like the guy on irc with full status) tell people that the price of convenience/happiness/civil society is to stfu (it's the only option that makes you reasonable,) the way trust works hasn't changed at all. people believe that happiness is debian and debian is the person telling them to shut up, so they shut up and they're happy until someone goes against the leader. those of us who trust ideals over leaders will see right through that.

someone should really be creating a museum of this censorship, including the most arrogant dismissals by poettering, the most unbelievable moves by irc groups and forums ( | tee museum.log > /dev/null for irc ) and in general how people are mistaking the vote by the tc as moses handing down tablets.

okay, so we're decided that jessie is going to switch defaults. guess what people? that's all they voted on. guess what that means? that means everything other than the default for jessie is still everyday "legitimate" debian discussion. anyone that goes beyond that limit for the sake of "community" considers themselves our masters and has no place running the community.

i'm no fan of d-watch, but the censorship that's stretching out like a net is a bigger story than what init system goes in. if someone put together a good article on that and got it published as a letter to dw, it could create a very sizable ripple to spread out.

take their advice and shut up* about jessie's defaults. but until the almighty technical committee votes to censor everyone too, why not focus the stink on how suddenly every discussion (not on the mailing lists, but everywhere) is on (unprecidented?) lockdown? that's a real story. and once everyone takes a look around at what's going on, this in and of itself does not make systemd look great.

* i only mean this rhetorically, of course
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