Debian 8 and systemd

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Debian 8 and systemd

Postby Lou » May 4th, 2015, 4:03 pm

Debian Jessie w/o systemd - icewm
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby Buntunub » May 5th, 2015, 1:00 am

Mmmk..

Same ol', Same ol' systemd fanbois trolling people bringing anti-systemd arguments.

It was a good article though.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby tomazzi » June 16th, 2015, 11:55 pm

Debian have been sold.

Debian TC was so lazy, that they even didn't took an effort to read what they've copy-pasted into a debian wiki - a stack of pure lies and bullshits about what systemd *magically* can do:
(debian wiki) : "Tracks processes using Linux cgroups" - well, thats a big lie: systemd does not give a shit whether the service have exited successfully - it just shuts the power down.

What have changed recently (before debian.forums.net was killed), is that they've decided to no longer lie about the systemd being able to "shutdown all of the services, regardless of its state" - that's a big progress...

Conclusion: Debian have becomed a "Fedora clone" - RedHat's testing ground - there's simply no difference. It's sad - I thought that the project is lead by a serious people - but apparently I was wrong.

Regards.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » June 17th, 2015, 12:02 am

No. Fedora is Red Hat's testing ground. If true, the content of your post would make Debian more of a Red Hat courtier or courtesan.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby cynwulf » June 17th, 2015, 7:49 am

Any distribution that uses upstream software acts as a "testing ground" for said software. What's new there?

Debian included systemd because that is the nature of Debian. Systemd became the default after a vote. People seem to think the vote wasn't "fair"? Without some kind of factual evidence, this is still the typically wild conspiracy stuff.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby nodir » June 17th, 2015, 10:03 am

cynwulf wrote:
Debian included systemd because that is the nature of Debian. Systemd became the default after a vote. People seem to think the vote wasn't "fair"? Without some kind of factual evidence, this is still the typically wild conspiracy stuff.

I recall it different. The Technical Committee (?) decided to make it default. The vote came later. In the meantime there was trouble (partly due to the fact, that the Committee made that decision).

But then: it really doesn't matter anymore. Debian sucks, and the reasons don't matter.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby cynwulf » June 17th, 2015, 12:52 pm

Well they "voted"/decided to go with systemd and the reasons don't matter.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » June 17th, 2015, 1:51 pm

The reasons for the vote and the way it was conducted do matter to some people. Not to me, but many people feel the decision was made in an underhanded manner and was contrary to users' wishes. Whether or not it is true is another matter, but that is how some interpret the situation. Naturally, from their perspective the process does matter.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby cynwulf » June 17th, 2015, 2:29 pm

Well "users" don't get to decide anything unless they are Debian members. Debian went with the solution which meant the least changes to upstream rather than choosing to diverge and deliberately avoid systemd. This was decided by the TC. Not a decision I agree with, in fact it's an awful decision, but there it is. The GR resulted in a no change as the vote outcome was that it wasn't needed. I understand the criticism of the process - but that's how it works. If the same process had resulted in sysvinit as default, those questioning said process now would not be doing so. In my opinion there's simply far too much pretentious political tomfoolery in Debian. Which is why I chose to switch to operating system projects which have strong leadership and a specific direction and focus.
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Re: Debian 8 and systemd

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » June 18th, 2015, 6:02 am

The GR resulted in a no change as the vote outcome was that it wasn't needed. I understand the criticism of the process - but that's how it works.
If I correctly understand the process as outlined in the Debian constitution, that is not how the process is supposed to work. I believe the Technical Committee only has the authority to rule on technical issues, hence the name, and not on matters of future development directions. If I remember events clearly, members of the TC that favoured systemd exploited a loophole; waiting until enough opposing members were unable to vote, declared systemd not being part of the default set-up to be "a bug," then voted to "fix the bug." The General Resolution vote was reluctantly agreed to after a storm of protest. In the end they decided to not reverse the TC's decision, because a lot of work would have been needed to undo the changes already made, which would have delayed the release of Jessie for a year or more. I got the impression that more people were angered by the machinations that violated the (perceived) spirit of Debian, than by the result. Perhaps they were unhappy to discover Debian is not the bastion of democracy they thought it is and vented their frustration at the process they viewed as unfair.

But that is history. It is a done deal; signed and delivered.
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