The Borg will prevail

Discussion of technology related topics including news, events, and announcements.

Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby mean_dean » January 5th, 2015, 3:00 am

Buntunub wrote:I did not say it was.


Buntunub wrote:It is coming to the BSD too fairly soon.


Buntunub wrote: A version of it will be ported or created for the BSD


:?
Last edited by mean_dean on January 5th, 2015, 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby mean_dean » January 5th, 2015, 3:02 am



Theo had this to say

> Was reading http://boycottsystemd.org/ and they wrote:
>
> "The OpenBSD Foundation is currently developing OS-agnostic, BSD-licensed
> replacements <http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd>,
> which will likely prove the most viable."
>
> Is this even something that's being worked on?
>
> http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/gsoc2014.html#systemd
>
> Just curious.

That writeup is agenda-driven bullshit.


1) The OpenBSD Foundation does not develop any kind of software.
They are a funding agency for the OpenBSD project.

2) The OpenBSD Project is what does development. The OpenBSD project
is not doing any such developement.

3) There is a Google-selected GSOC project by a student to attempt
to make some sense -- in various forms -- of the problems introduced
by systemd, and try to resolve them -- in various forms -- to make
supposedly previously portable software once again portable.

4) There are some OpenBSD Project developers helping that student, I
believe.

4) There is absolutely nothing anywhere saying the result would be
OS-agnostic. Someone is totally full of shit.

5) There is nothing to show.

I understand that some people hate the stunts that Red Hat is pulling
these days, but please -- there is no need to drag us into it.

Nothing happening here provides any ammunition like those people want.
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby Buntunub » January 5th, 2015, 3:07 am

mean_dean wrote:
Buntunub wrote:I did not say it was.


Buntunub wrote:Well. First off, running to BSD land will not protect you from systemd. It is coming to the BSD too fairly soon.


Buntunub wrote: A version of it will be ported or created for the BSD because the ideas behind it on the technical level are interesting and if there is a demand for it, and I believe there is/will be.


:?


Well, yeah. The second quote is clearly not how I meant it, but yeah. I do think that change is a comin to BSD land because the people that matter (ie. BSD developers, such as Jordan Hubbard) want it. Industry demands will probably also play a role. I do not think it will be a systemd clone, but I guess well see over the next few years what happens.
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » January 5th, 2015, 3:22 am

The purpose of this GSoC was (is) not to port systemd to *BSD in way, shape or form. Nor is it to replace the existing init(8), boot(8) or rc(8) programs. Systemd and *BSD differ fundamentally in terms of philosophy and development practices and special care was taken to only wrap the functionality of the aforementioned daemons and not create any new systemd-like functionality.
Upon completion and review, my code will most likely end up as a port to be installed along with the GNOME suite, or any other ports that depend on systemd (upstream) and need a compatibility layer to work properly on non-systemd operating systems. It goes without saying that none of my code will end up (or belongs) in the base system.

Again, someone is working on a project that will hopefully allow a small number people to continue using Gnome. This person acknowledges that his code will not become part of the base system and believes it should not. So from this, it is clear that BSD systems will adopt systemd?

In fact, the code for it is already available on Git.
Unity is also available. So by this logic, Unity will soon be adopted by all Linux distributions.

Who is Jordan Hubbard? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Hubbard Well aside from being a long time very prominant BSD developer, he co-founded freeBSD. In that video, he also says he commited the very first rc.conf. Nah, he don't know nothin about BSD right? In that talk he said that BSD needs a systemd-like init system replacement. I suppose one could take his word as gospel. It will happen.
Is that the former FreeBSD developer who is now setting forth ideas no one else in BSDland agrees with?
Last edited by Randicus Draco Albus on January 5th, 2015, 3:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby mean_dean » January 5th, 2015, 3:23 am

Buntunub wrote: I do think that change is a comin to BSD land because the people that matter (ie. BSD developers, such as Jordan Hubbard) want it.


cynwulf wrote:It's probably important to note that Hubbard left FreeBSD core in 2002... he went to Apple the year before.

...

Also worth noting that FreeBSD is only one *BSD derived OS (not a "distribution" as moronix calls it), so Hubbard's views not only do not represent the views of FreeBSD developers, but also have no bearing whatsoever on OpenBSD, NetBSD and DragonFly BSD.





cynwulf wrote:Sorry, old news and Jordan Hubbard or his opinions doesn't matter on the grand scale of things...
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby Buntunub » January 5th, 2015, 3:58 am

Randicus Draco Albus wrote:
Who is Jordan Hubbard? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Hubbard Well aside from being a long time very prominant BSD developer, he co-founded freeBSD. In that video, he also says he commited the very first rc.conf. Nah, he don't know nothin about BSD right? In that talk he said that BSD needs a systemd-like init system replacement. I suppose one could take his word as gospel. It will happen.


Is that the former FreeBSD developer who is now setting forth ideas no one else in BSDland agrees with?


I don't know anything about that Randicus. If that is true, then a new init system may not happen, I guess. I just know what I read from those sources and the video. Jordon Hubbard from everything I have read, is a well respected figure in the BSD world. I guess that goes to show that nobody really knows what will happen over the next few years with BSD because its all speculation. I think I am going to give up following the news on systemd.
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » January 5th, 2015, 4:23 am

The only relevant facts for this discussion are:
1 - Systemd is Linux-specific.
2 - The purpose is to transform Linux into a Windows-style integrated system. (Effectively putting future development under the control of Red Hat.)
3 - BSD developers and users have no interest in it.

2 and 3 reinforce each other. Systemd abandons the UNIX-style modular system, which BSD will not give up. I believe systemd will completely take over Linux, but it will go no further. BSD will not adopt something similar to it, because it deviates too far from the UNIX model. What we are witnessing is not systemd replacing everything, but Linux and BSD separating into two completely different systems.
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby cynwulf » January 5th, 2015, 10:39 am

Buntunub wrote:I don't know anything [...] I just know what I read from those sources and the video [...] its all speculation. I think I am going to give up following the news on systemd.

Funny how you presume to lecture me on the supposed "technical merits" of systemd and about "BSD", yet you don't know the first thing about either. Your source for the bullshit about Jordan Hubbard's irrelevant presentation about "BSD" was an FDN thread and your source about "systembsd" was also likely FDN or the hysterical debian fork site.

Also the link which you provided to undeadly.org actually refutes your claims: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article& ... 0915064856

Now let's clear some things up:

The purpose of this GSoC was (is) not to port systemd to *BSD in way, shape or form. Nor is it to replace the existing init(8), boot(8) or rc(8) programs. Systemd and *BSD differ fundamentally in terms of philosophy and development practices and special care was taken to only wrap the functionality of the aforementioned daemons and not create any new systemd-like functionality.


Upon completion and review, my code will most likely end up as a port to be installed along with the GNOME suite, or any other ports that depend on systemd (upstream) and need a compatibility layer to work properly on non-systemd operating systems. It goes without saying that none of my code will end up (or belongs) in the base system.

This is what some people on various sites (including debian fork site) have referred to as the "OpenBSD project" being all "pragmatic" and proactive about dealing with systemd...
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Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby cynwulf » January 15th, 2015, 1:57 pm

I was bored so decided to have a look at what actually can get installed related to systemd in Debian 7 wheezy amd64 and what packages are available. This is in response to some of the hysteria I have read out there with respect to those who irrationally want to exorcise every last piece of said software from their system.

Not having a debian install, I decided to have a look at packages.debian.org and searched for systemd, limited to amd64 and wheezy and came up with these packages.


Binary packages:

systemd
libpam-systemd
libsystemd-daemon-dev
libsystemd-daemon0
libsystemd-id128-0
libsystemd-id128-dev
libsystemd-journal-dev
libsystemd-journal0
libsystemd-login-dev
libsystemd-login0
systemd-gui
systemd-sysv

More: show
('Debianised') source packages:

systemd

(also found live-config-systemd which is built from live-config source package - irrelevant)

I'm not interested in packages, so looking at those binary packages again, I decided to see what they install - minus man pages and other bits and any other pieces in /usr/share (if you don't know why stuff in /usr/share is irrelevant then you probably shouldn't be complaining about systemd - or you're some kind of anti-systemd jihadist incapable of rational behaviour).

systemd

Code: Select all
/bin/systemctl
/bin/systemd
/bin/systemd-ask-password
/bin/systemd-journalctl
/bin/systemd-loginctl
/bin/systemd-machine-id-setup
/bin/systemd-notify
/bin/systemd-tmpfiles
/bin/systemd-tty-ask-password-agent
/etc/bash_completion.d/systemd-bash-completion.sh
/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.hostname1.conf
/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.locale1.conf
/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.login1.conf
/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.systemd1.conf
/etc/dbus-1/system.d/org.freedesktop.timedate1.conf
/etc/modules-load.d/modules.conf
/etc/systemd/system.conf
/etc/systemd/system/getty.target.wants/getty@tty1.service
/etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/remote-fs.target
/etc/systemd/systemd-journald.conf
/etc/systemd/systemd-logind.conf
/etc/systemd/user.conf
/etc/xdg/systemd/user
/lib/lsb/init-functions.d/40-systemd
/lib/systemd/debian-enable-units
/lib/systemd/debian-fixup
/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-cryptsetup-generator
/lib/systemd/system-generators/systemd-getty-generator
/lib/systemd/system/autovt@.service
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target.wants/debian-enable-units.service
/lib/systemd/system/basic.target.wants/systemd-tmpfiles-clean.timer
/lib/systemd/system/bluetooth.target
/lib/systemd/system/bootlogd.service
/lib/systemd/system/bootmisc.service
/lib/systemd/system/checkfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/checkroot-bootclean.service
/lib/systemd/system/checkroot.service
/lib/systemd/system/console-shell.service
/lib/systemd/system/cryptdisks-early.service
/lib/systemd/system/cryptdisks.service
/lib/systemd/system/cryptsetup.target
/lib/systemd/system/ctrl-alt-del.target
/lib/systemd/system/dbus-org.freedesktop.hostname1.service
/lib/systemd/system/dbus-org.freedesktop.locale1.service
/lib/systemd/system/dbus-org.freedesktop.login1.service
/lib/systemd/system/dbus-org.freedesktop.timedate1.service
/lib/systemd/system/debian-enable-units.service
/lib/systemd/system/debian-fixup.service
/lib/systemd/system/default.target
/lib/systemd/system/dev-hugepages.mount
/lib/systemd/system/dev-mqueue.mount
/lib/systemd/system/emergency.service
/lib/systemd/system/emergency.target
/lib/systemd/system/final.target
/lib/systemd/system/fsck-root.service
/lib/systemd/system/fsck@.service
/lib/systemd/system/fuse.service
/lib/systemd/system/getty.target
/lib/systemd/system/getty@.service
/lib/systemd/system/graphical.target
/lib/systemd/system/halt.service
/lib/systemd/system/halt.target
/lib/systemd/system/hostname.service
/lib/systemd/system/http-daemon.target
/lib/systemd/system/hwclock.service
/lib/systemd/system/hwclockfirst.service
/lib/systemd/system/ifup@.service
/lib/systemd/system/kexec.service
/lib/systemd/system/kexec.target
/lib/systemd/system/killprocs.service
/lib/systemd/system/kmod.service
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs-pre.target
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/fsck-root.service
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/remount-rootfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/run-lock.mount
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/run-user.mount
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/systemd-remount-api-vfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/var-lock.mount
/lib/systemd/system/local-fs.target.wants/var-run.mount
/lib/systemd/system/mail-transfer-agent.target
/lib/systemd/system/module-init-tools.service
/lib/systemd/system/mountall-bootclean.service
/lib/systemd/system/mountall.service
/lib/systemd/system/mountdevsubfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/mountkernfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/mountnfs-bootclean.service
/lib/systemd/system/mountnfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/mtab.service
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/getty.target
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/systemd-ask-password-wall.path
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/systemd-logind.service
/lib/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/systemd-user-sessions.service
/lib/systemd/system/network.target
/lib/systemd/system/nss-lookup.target
/lib/systemd/system/poweroff.service
/lib/systemd/system/poweroff.target
/lib/systemd/system/printer.target
/lib/systemd/system/proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.automount
/lib/systemd/system/proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
/lib/systemd/system/procps.service
/lib/systemd/system/quotacheck.service
/lib/systemd/system/quotaon.service
/lib/systemd/system/reboot.service
/lib/systemd/system/reboot.target
/lib/systemd/system/remote-fs-pre.target
/lib/systemd/system/remote-fs.target
/lib/systemd/system/remount-rootfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/rescue.service
/lib/systemd/system/rescue.target
/lib/systemd/system/rmnologin.service
/lib/systemd/system/rpcbind.target
/lib/systemd/system/run-lock.mount
/lib/systemd/system/run-user.mount
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel0.target
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel1.target
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel1.target.wants/systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel2.target
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel2.target.wants/systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel3.target.wants/systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel4.target
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel4.target.wants/systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel5.target
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel5.target.wants/systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
/lib/systemd/system/runlevel6.target
/lib/systemd/system/serial-getty@.service
/lib/systemd/system/shutdown.target
/lib/systemd/system/shutdown.target.wants/systemd-random-seed-save.service
/lib/systemd/system/shutdown.target.wants/systemd-update-utmp-shutdown.service
/lib/systemd/system/sigpwr.target
/lib/systemd/system/single.service
/lib/systemd/system/smartcard.target
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-initctl.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-journald.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sockets.target.wants/systemd-shutdownd.socket
/lib/systemd/system/sound.target
/lib/systemd/system/stop-bootlogd-single.service
/lib/systemd/system/stop-bootlogd.service
/lib/systemd/system/swap.target
/lib/systemd/system/sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sys-kernel-config.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sys-kernel-debug.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sys-kernel-security.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/cryptsetup.target
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/debian-fixup.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/dev-hugepages.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/dev-mqueue.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.automount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/sys-kernel-config.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/sys-kernel-debug.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/sys-kernel-security.mount
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-ask-password-console.path
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-binfmt.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-journald.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-modules-load.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-random-seed-load.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-sysctl.service
/lib/systemd/system/sysinit.target.wants/systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
/lib/systemd/system/syslog.socket
/lib/systemd/system/syslog.target
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-ask-password-console.path
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-ask-password-console.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-ask-password-wall.path
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-ask-password-wall.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-binfmt.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-hostnamed.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-initctl.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-initctl.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-journald.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-journald.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-localed.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-logind.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-modules-load.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-random-seed-load.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-random-seed-save.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-readahead-collect.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-readahead-done.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-readahead-done.timer
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-readahead-replay.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-remount-api-vfs.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-shutdownd.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-shutdownd.socket
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-sysctl.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-timedated.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-tmpfiles-clean.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-tmpfiles-clean.timer
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-update-utmp-shutdown.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-user-sessions.service
/lib/systemd/system/systemd-vconsole-setup.service
/lib/systemd/system/time-sync.target
/lib/systemd/system/udev-mtab.service
/lib/systemd/system/umount.target
/lib/systemd/system/urandom.service
/lib/systemd/system/user@.service
/lib/systemd/system/var-lock.mount
/lib/systemd/system/var-run.mount
/lib/systemd/system/x11-common.service
/lib/systemd/systemd
/lib/systemd/systemd-ac-power
/lib/systemd/systemd-binfmt
/lib/systemd/systemd-cgroups-agent
/lib/systemd/systemd-cryptsetup
/lib/systemd/systemd-detect-virt
/lib/systemd/systemd-fsck
/lib/systemd/systemd-hostnamed
/lib/systemd/systemd-initctl
/lib/systemd/systemd-journald
/lib/systemd/systemd-localed
/lib/systemd/systemd-logind
/lib/systemd/systemd-modules-load
/lib/systemd/systemd-multi-seat-x
/lib/systemd/systemd-quotacheck
/lib/systemd/systemd-random-seed
/lib/systemd/systemd-readahead-collect
/lib/systemd/systemd-readahead-replay
/lib/systemd/systemd-remount-api-vfs
/lib/systemd/systemd-reply-password
/lib/systemd/systemd-shutdown
/lib/systemd/systemd-shutdownd
/lib/systemd/systemd-sysctl
/lib/systemd/systemd-timedated
/lib/systemd/systemd-timestamp
/lib/systemd/systemd-uaccess
/lib/systemd/systemd-update-utmp
/lib/systemd/systemd-user-sessions
/lib/systemd/systemd-vconsole-setup
/lib/udev/rules.d/70-uaccess.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/71-seat.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/73-seat-late.rules
/lib/udev/rules.d/99-systemd.rules
/usr/bin/systemd-analyze
/usr/bin/systemd-cat
/usr/bin/systemd-cgls
/usr/bin/systemd-cgtop
/usr/bin/systemd-nspawn
/usr/bin/systemd-stdio-bridge
/usr/lib/systemd/user/bluetooth.target
/usr/lib/systemd/user/default.target
/usr/lib/systemd/user/exit.service
/usr/lib/systemd/user/exit.target
/usr/lib/systemd/user/printer.target
/usr/lib/systemd/user/shutdown.target
/usr/lib/systemd/user/sockets.target
/usr/lib/systemd/user/sound.target
/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/debian.conf
/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/legacy.conf
/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/systemd.conf
/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/tmp.conf
/usr/lib/tmpfiles.d/x11.conf

This is pretty much systemd itself - all the binaries and scripts etc. So if you don't have this installed you don't have systemd installed.

libpam-systemd
Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_systemd.so

A PAM module for systemd. This is just a lib, so having this installed is harmless, if it really bothers you, I can't help with that - see a specialist.

libsystemd-daemon0
Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-daemon.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-daemon.so.0.0.1

Another lib, don't know care/what it does, but without systemd it will just sit there (as above).

libsystemd-id128-0
Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-id128.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-id128.so.0.0.3

The package description says it all. Without systemd installed this is also pretty much just cruft.

libsystemd-journal0
Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-journal.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-journal.so.0.0.3

Required by the systemd journal service. As with other libs, it's not used if you don't have, etc...

libsystemd-login0
Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-login.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-login.so.0.2.1

As above.

systemd-gui
Code: Select all
/usr/bin/systemadm
/usr/bin/systemd-gnome-ask-password-agent

I can't imagine any circumstances where this would be installed as a dependency - so irrelevant.

systemd-sysv
Code: Select all
/sbin/halt
/sbin/init
/sbin/poweroff
/sbin/reboot
/sbin/runlevel
/sbin/shutdown
/sbin/telinit

symbolic links to sysvinit like commands - harmless and probably never installed unless systemd is installed

libsystemd-daemon-dev
Code: Select all
/usr/include/systemd/sd-daemon.h
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-daemon.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libsystemd-daemon.pc

libsystemd-id128-dev
Code: Select all
/usr/include/systemd/sd-id128.h
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-id128.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libsystemd-id128.pc

libsystemd-journal-dev
Code: Select all
/usr/include/systemd/sd-journal.h
/usr/include/systemd/sd-messages.h
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-journal.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libsystemd-journal.pc

libsystemd-login-dev
Code: Select all
/usr/include/systemd/sd-login.h
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-login.so
/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/libsystemd-login.pc

Development files - unlikely you'd install these (header files, build/package config and sym links)

To break the list down further the relevant files which some are complaining about are:

Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_systemd.so
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-daemon.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-daemon.so.0.0.1
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-id128.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-id128.so.0.0.3
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-journal.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-journal.so.0.0.3
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-login.so.0
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-login.so.0.2.1


I can see a few symlinks in there so we can reduce the list further:

Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/security/pam_systemd.so
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-daemon.so.0.0.1
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-id128.so.0.0.3
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-journal.so.0.0.3
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd-login.so.0.2.1

So if you install Debian wheezy without systemd, the most in terms of binaries you can expect to be pulled in as dependencies are these 5 files and the associated man page cruft, sym links, etc.

This does not mean that you are running systemd or that your system is somehow compromised with systemd stuff.

In Debian testing, udev is built from the systemd source - obviously because of the systemd/udev merger. There are also a few more addon packages, to provide systemd support where needed and the shim, but nothing drastically different so far as I can tell...

The new 'controversial' package being pulled in - and frightening systemd-ophobes recently - is libsystemd0.

This is what the libsystemd0 package installs:
Code: Select all
/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libsystemd.so.0.3.1

In all honesty, if you're going to spend time pinning your testing install to keep that from installing, it's probably time to see a shrink. It's also probably a good time to ask yourself if you should really be running the testing branch of a Linux distribution.
cynwulf
 
Posts: 2548
Joined: April 26th, 2011, 2:46 pm

Re: The Borg will prevail

Postby mean_dean » January 15th, 2015, 7:19 pm

cynwulf wrote:This is in response to some of the hysteria I have read out there with respect to those who irrationally want to exorcise every last piece of said software from their system.

feeling a little sensationalist today, are we? :D

Not sure hysteria....well...maybe...yea...probably right....will give you that one....

I do not think it is irrational to want to remove software from your system that you do not care for though. That being said, I have no idea why most users give a shit.

I do think systemd is the future of linux and will go hand in hand with the kernel. I am starting to think it may be a decent approach to having a standardized core system or at least a good attempt. I am still not sure I want that though. But for people that prefer complete and comfortable environment then systemd is probably a huge leap in making that 'just work' so I have no idea why they would complain. In other words, considering what seems to be the target market for linux nowadays systemd seems to be a good fit for it.


on another note...it appears that systemd gained forwarding and masquerading support for the network.
http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/sys ... 56638378ce
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mean_dean
 
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Joined: November 30th, 2014, 1:12 pm

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