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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 27th, 2014, 11:08 pm
by Randicus Draco Albus
I did a little poking around their website and am more confused than before. They talk about creating a minimalist Debian fork and a seamless upgrade from Wheezy to Devuan. So which is it? A minimalist fork or a fork of the entire system?

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 28th, 2014, 2:05 am
by mean_dean
They talk about everything. I think they are a bunch of individuals that are mostly going in their own directions and hoping it all comes together. I suspect they will accomplish some good work but I remain a bit doubtful they will accomplish everything they have talked about, certainly not by the time jessie is released.

I think it would of been MORE than enough work for jessie to just spin a iso with desktop/apps and make it free of systemd init as well as libs. That in and of itself is a very lofty goal.

Once that was done, start working on other packages to create a clone of main repo that was free of systemd, saving gnome for last as it would likely be the worst.

Actually they could of just worked on the packages/repo and others like refracta would of done install images.

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 1:26 am
by mean_dean
I will have to say that max2344 has done well so far. Seems to be on the right track....

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 1:45 am
by golinux
mean_dean wrote:Once that was done, start working on other packages to create a clone of main repo that was free of systemd, saving gnome for last as it would likely be the worst.

I ran with this idea and posted it to the Devuan mail list. You might want to take a look and/or add your .02. Jaromil piped in at one point.

Yes, max2344 is doing good work. A lot is going on that is not on irc or the list.

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 3:02 am
by mean_dean
golinux wrote:Devuan mail list.

I'm guessing that mplayer, totem etc. are a no-go because of systemd deps?


Actually those are fairly easy I believe. I have them installed but have not tested full functionality of the system yet.

It seems like every discussion on that list turns into a back and forth about what devuan should and shouldn't be. The answer always seems to be somewhere between a minimal system that only admins would care about to a full-blown gnome install that desktop users would care about. me still confused :D

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 4:46 am
by dilberts_left_nut
mean_dean wrote:The answer always seems to be somewhere between a minimal system that only admins would care about to a full-blown gnome install that desktop users would care about.

Maybe for desktop users pretending to be sysadmins running devuan dual-booted with kali...

I forsee a forum full of posts like " I just added the debian repos to my sources.list to install {gnome|systemd-networkd|whatever else} and now {my devuan won't boot|Iget black screen|the world has ended|...}
PLEEZE HELP ME NOW!!!!!"

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 5:07 am
by golinux
mean_dean wrote:
golinux wrote:Devuan mail list.

I'm guessing that mplayer, totem etc. are a no-go because of systemd deps?


Actually those are fairly easy I believe. I have them installed but have not tested full functionality of the system yet.

That would make me happy. :)

mean_dean wrote:It seems like every discussion on that list turns into a back and forth about what devuan should and shouldn't be. The answer always seems to be somewhere between a minimal system that only admins would care about to a full-blown gnome install that desktop users would care about. me still confused :D

The driving motivation is C-H-O-I-C-E not how the end-user will purpose the system - basically a 'no user left behind' philosophy.

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 29th, 2014, 11:03 pm
by Randicus Draco Albus
mean_dean wrote:It seems like every discussion on that list turns into a back and forth about what devuan should and shouldn't be. The answer always seems to be somewhere between a minimal system that only admins would care about to a full-blown gnome install that desktop users would care about. me still confused :D

golinux wrote:The driving motivation is C-H-O-I-C-E not how the end-user will purpose the system - basically a 'no user left behind' philosophy.
If they try to not leave anyone behind, the ship will sink before leaving port. They need to decide what user base to focus on, otherwise they will flounder.

dilberts_left_nut wrote:I forsee a forum full of posts like " I just added the debian repos to my sources.list to install {gnome|systemd-networkd|whatever else} and now {my devuan won't boot|Iget black screen|the world has ended|...}
PLEEZE HELP ME NOW!!!!!"
Proposal for a new user name; nostradamus' left nut.

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 31st, 2014, 1:17 am
by mean_dean
WOW I just checked out Trios openrc version. Great work!

Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

PostPosted: December 31st, 2014, 4:17 pm
by cynwulf
Personally I think they should drop gnome altogether and just retain gtk3+, gnome keyring and a few other bits for compatibility's sake.

There is a very sound argument that the people who will want to run gnome will just run Debian with systemd anyway and those that actually want gnome without systemd will be a tiny minority and likely clued up enough to find their own way around it.

I predict a FORK: The "it must be a complete Debian clone without systemd" zealots will get their knickers in a twist whenever there is any talk of sensible stripping down to get to something closer to the realms of realism.