Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby cynwulf » December 26th, 2014, 8:01 pm

Some clarification is needed: fork or derivative?
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby mean_dean » December 26th, 2014, 8:09 pm

Uh well at first, then, if, maybe, then, will see, maybe, etc....

Personally I would say they are aiming for a fork....but if your intentions are already far different than debian then why would you fork debian...but then again would/could a derivative be so different and still be a derivative...
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby golinux » December 26th, 2014, 8:12 pm

cynwulf wrote:Some clarification is needed: fork or derivative?

For Jessie more of a derivative to move users smoothly away from Debian/systemd. Following releases will likely not be compatible so then the true fork. By then anyone who wants to escape will have done so smoothly with dist-upgrade to Devuan.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby golinux » December 26th, 2014, 8:13 pm

mean_dean wrote:Uh well at first, then, if, maybe, then, will see, maybe, etc....

Personally I would say they are aiming for a fork....but if your intentions are already far different than debian then why would you fork debian...but then again would/could a derivative be so different and still be a derivative...

Sigh . . . you're just not getting it, Dean.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby mean_dean » December 26th, 2014, 8:24 pm

You are right. I don't get it.

So much more to say....but why bother.....
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby golinux » December 26th, 2014, 8:27 pm

Devuan doesn't want to abandon Debian users. Devuan1 will be a transitional bridge to Valhalla so to speak. Once there, the bridge can be burned.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby mean_dean » December 26th, 2014, 8:50 pm

now I feel enlightened
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby cynwulf » December 26th, 2014, 9:03 pm

Devuan don't seem credible at this stage and though their rhetoric loaded website may give foaming at the mouth anti systemd former debian fanbois a hard on, I remain sceptical of the "veteran unix admins"...
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » December 26th, 2014, 10:30 pm

golinux wrote:Good grief. Did you not read this:
. . . Devuan wants to provide a seamless life-raft to carry those not wanting to move to a systemd infected jessie to a safe, uncontaminated place.

This will be accomplished via a dist-upgrade. If you were to read their mailing list you would be aware of the innovation that is going on and will be implemented in Devuan 1- like udev and dbus replacements.
Great. They hope to jury-rig the base system to not have systemd components. What about packages that will have systemd dependencies? Those will need to be altered also. Gnome will be another project itself for them.
golinux wrote:For Jessie more of a derivative to move users smoothly away from Debian/systemd. Following releases will likely not be compatible so then the true fork. By then anyone who wants to escape will have done so smoothly with dist-upgrade to Devuan.
I cannot help thinking about the proverb; if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is. It is a good dream, but I have a feeling reality might hamper it. Myself, I would create a fork that is as Debian-like as possible and offer it to Debian users as an attractive alternative. Their idea creates much more work, reduces the chances of success and is unneeded.
golinux wrote:Sigh . . . you're just not getting it, Dean.
What many of us do not get is how a small group of people can clone a project as large as Debian in a short range of time. It should also be borne in mind that the people most sceptical, such as Dean, cynwulf (and jheaton?), know much more about the inner workings of systems and distributions than you and I do. I understand the goal, but do not believe it is feasible. Planning to have an intermediate stage of Debian without systemd, instead of going straight for the fork, suggests those Veteran Unix Admins do not know what they are doing. They appear to be chasing a dream instead of focusing on what actually needs to be done. Either create a derivative or a fork. Trying to do both in succession is, to me, foolish. Especially with a project as large as Debian. What they should do is what the Mageia team did. When the developers left Mandriva, they created a Mandriva clone and made it available to unhappy Mandriva users. They did not try to have an intermediate stage where Mandriva users could update to a new version of Mandriva before updating to the new system.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby golinux » December 26th, 2014, 10:50 pm

They are already tackling Gnome so that Gnome users will have a smooth transition to the promised land. Personally, I wouldn't bother with Gnome. But they want to give Gnome users a choice when they move to Devuan. IMO this is one part of the project that really could be doomed. But if a dev has an itch . . . And yes, they will repackage those apps that have systemd entanglements. That will be the base for the fork.
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