Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby anastasis » November 26th, 2014, 9:28 am

Hey, throw me a bone here.

A man's gotta have hope.

Just letting people know that donations are open.

Besides, if you're serious, there's no law against emailing them as they suggest and discussing things a bit further.

There may be practical (and very political) reasons for keeping it a bit anonymous at this point.

I'm guessing this isn't a group of teenagers.

No...

This group is something different altogether. And I get the impression they are intimately involved in Debian.

I think we'll know sooner rather than later.

Remember, the central issue here is politics, not tech.

All that was requested is that Debian remain init agnostic.

I don't think that was too much to ask.

And if the powers-that-be cannot even oblidge so much as that, then whatever this group may or may not be, something this drastic needs to happen.

It is nothing less than a call to arms.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. — The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » November 26th, 2014, 10:43 am

anastasis wrote:It is nothing less than a call to arms.
No, it is a few people having a few drinks at the local pub fantasising about a rebellion. A real example of a call to arms is Mandriva's team of developers not agreeing with the development direction taken by the company that owns the distribution, leaving and creating a fork of Mandriva called Mageia.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby cynwulf » November 26th, 2014, 12:18 pm

anastasis wrote:Just letting people know that donations are open.

I'm sure they are grateful, that's probably the main purpose of the site...

anastasis wrote:Besides, if you're serious, there's no law against emailing them as they suggest and discussing things a bit further.

Which would achieve what exactly?

anastasis wrote:There may be practical (and very political) reasons for keeping it a bit anonymous at this point.

There are practical reasons - i.e. the people behind this don't want to be known. If this were a true debian fork, we'd know who the key "defectors" are and their would be some discussion on the mailing lists - in fact it would probably have started on the mailing lists. As to "political", the site is political and nothing more.

anastasis wrote:I'm guessing this isn't a group of teenagers.

The site is dark grey and makes use of huge orange typeface and if full of speculation, hearsay, rhetoric, FUD and phrases like "Veteran Unix Admins". Everything about it says "group of teenagers"...

There is no clear "mission plan", no details of what they are going to do, no code has been written, yet they have slapped together a crude web site and are already asking for money.


anastasis wrote:This group is something different altogether. And I get the impression they are intimately involved in Debian.

No idea where you get that impression.

anastasis wrote:Remember, the central issue here is politics, not tech.

Which is half the problem - i.e it's 90% FUD from non technical people with no technical basis.

If you're worried about stuff that's not for "veteran UNIX admins", start ripping out most of the Linux/freedesktop userland crap such as udev, udisks, upower, dbus, consolekit, hal, policykit, dconf, gnome, etc, etc.

The Linux eco system has been reinventing the flat tire of Windows for years, systemd is just an effort to put all of those flat tires on the same vehicle...
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby anastasis » November 26th, 2014, 6:03 pm

Well, I know that many in the Debian community will continue to be their normal, bushy, bright, cheerful, positive selves.

However, I will remain optimistic about the forking project.

:)
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference. — The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby jheaton5 » November 26th, 2014, 10:38 pm

cynwulf wrote:To those stupid enough to donate, it's pouring money down the drain.

+1
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby username » November 27th, 2014, 3:30 am

Yea the more I think about it this debian 'fork' is probably the most pointless thing I have heard of in a while....
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby jheaton5 » November 27th, 2014, 2:25 pm

When this suggestion was made a few months ago, my knee-jerk reaction was, "Yes, that's what we ought to do!" Then I began to think. Resources are not there. How many developers will it take? Where will the project be hosted? Who will pay the expenses. Debian is a non-profit organization but they have a lot of corporate sponsors that donate money and developer time to the project. IMO, a debian fork is doomed to fail. But if these guys are serious about this project they need to publish a realistic business plan on their website.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » November 28th, 2014, 4:30 am

jheaton5 wrote:But if these guys are serious about this project they need to publish a realistic business plan on their website.

+1
If someone wants me to donate money to a project, they must first show me a plan:
Our goal(s) is/are ...
The steps we plan to take are: first ..., then ..., and finally ...

This project has a nebulous goal without a plan to get there. That tells me no one is yet involved with the necessary technical skills to do anything. This is not yet a project. It is only an idea for a project. They have an idea and have put out a call for volunteers who can implement their vague idea. Asking for money at this point is inappropriate. That should come after a plan has been drawn up and developers join the effort.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby golinux » November 28th, 2014, 4:38 am

Randicus Draco Albus wrote:This project has a nebulous goal without a plan to get there. That tells me no one is yet involved with the necessary technical skills to do anything. This is not yet a project. It is only an idea for a project.
Was just on the IRC channel. They already have an iso that they're testing.
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Re: Fundraising now open for Debian Fork

Postby Randicus Draco Albus » November 28th, 2014, 5:19 am

It is odd that a project with no clearly stated objectives and plan to achieve them is moving so quickly. The obvious question is, what is contained in the ISO? A base Debian system without systemd? Then other questions come to mind. Wheezy or Jessie? What happens after installation? There is no point if installing a package from Debian's repository pulls in systemd. Without details, I cannot change my mind.
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